Matrix Games Forums

I see that the game will include Antitank rifles. But what infantry weapons/capabilities are there for atatcking armor?

I believe that rifle grenades were available to the Germans. Weapons like the molotov cocktail and satchel charge type weapons were probably the most common on both sides. I do not believe that thrown shaped charge weapons were available.

Attacking tanks with mines was another last ditch defense. Either placing the mine so the tank rolled over it or using an attached grenade to set it off after placing it. Either using a daisy chain (mines dragged across a road by means of a rope) or a swing board (mines attached to a plank and swiveled on a pivot) a determined soldier could ensure that a tank would hit the mines.

Early German rifle grenades were not that effective but could jam the turret in some cases. Later models were probably effective against the lower sides of the T34. Rifle grenades, with their low velocity and arced flight, somewhat offset the advantage of sloped armor.

http://www.inert-ord.net/ger03a/gerrg2/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/augusta/8172/panzerfaust8.htm

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/ ... nades.html

From one of the sources...
It was soon replaced by the larger grosse Gewehrpanzergranate. the new type weighed 390g, had a length of 18.5 cm and carried a shaped charge of 115g of explosives, which improved the armor penetration to now 70mm (regardless of range, of course, as it was a shaped charge). Of both types together 23,808,900 were produced, of which 18,273,600 were used up during the war.

The Germans even modified ATR to be grenade launchers. I am not that sure that German units would have kept antitank rifles late 42 if not modified this way. They did use the captured Soviet weapons probably longer than their own.

Later in the war the german tank rifles PzB 38 and PzB 39 were withdrawn from frontservice (the penetrating power of AT rifles did not suffice for the new tanks); Starting 1942, the PzB 39 were rebuilt with a shortened barrel (59cm) and an affixed Schiessbecher ("firing cup" = rifle grenade launching attachment) as grenade rifles with the designation Granatbüchse Modell 39 ("grenade rifle model 39") and proved useful in that role.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/ ... uchse.html

The Germans did have the magnetic hollow charge Panzerhandmine / Hafthohlladung
at this time (late 42). Tank killer squads probably had them.

The molotov cocktail was supposedly not as effective against T34 as early tanks. This coming from the Finns. The fact is that any vehicle needs to draw in air. Especially the engine. Even tanks with multi-baffled inlets are vulnerable to molotov cocktails. The inrush of air will draw the flames (and intensify the burning) and stall out the engine, incinerate wiring/hoses/etc and be drawn across the radiator. The best place on a T34 is the rear deck right behind the turret. Molotov cocktails with tar and other materials mixed in can give a long burning smoky fire. Strait gasoline is not that effective. A mix of gasoline and diesal is very good. The burning fluid also will blind the vision devices. As a tank destroying weapon it is limited, but it is somewhat effective especially in close quarters.

So. Will the game model tank killer squads? Daisy chains? Molotovs, etc.?

Infantry can close assault vehicles within 30 meters. The effectiveness of the assault assumes rifle grenades, molotovs, possibly hollow charge grenades, etc. If you take a look at the FAQ you can get an idea of the units included in the initial release. Again, one of our key goals here is that we are looking to give people all the key units and effects without trying to over-model.

I don't mean to offend, but to make a comparison at a different scale it feels a bit like you are looking for a "World in Flames" type game in terms of level of detail, but you are posting in a forum for "Clash of Steel". I think you'll enjoy Panzer Command, but it's clear to me that it's not the game you yourself would design in terms of detail and complexity. As I said elsewhere, we have to draw the line at some point for an initial release, or it will never actually be released. We learned that the hard way on a few other projects.

Regards,

- Erik

No offense taken.

I assume that close assaulting would be subject to modifiers? I would propose that the German infantry actually had better weapons at hand for this. largely from the rifle grenades and perhaps from the magnetic mines.

I would like to see some sort of Tank-Killer squad representing individuals with experience, training and weapons. If nothing more than a better modifier modeling them.

I do not believe the Soviets had a HEAT grenade (in 43 they did) at this time, either hand or rifle. I believe they just used a high capacity HE stick grenade of sorts.

For those of you that do like to read about this stuff...

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?opt ... Itemid=123&

The article mentions aiming for specific areas. At close range this is entirely possible. The main reason for this is the small offset the sights have in relation to the barrel. Unlike a tank gun where the sight is sometimes feet away from the barrel. The high velocity also assures a flat trajectory and the possibility of critical hits. As guns on AFV got larger, they could also be targeted.


German tank Destruction Badge..

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_bad ... e_tank.htm