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Here's one for the books. PBEM game where I have a large IJN pigboat fleet out in the IO. Apparently the RN is out in force looking for my friends. Well they find each other ....

Result is the HMS Hermes eats one torpedo (always a grand day for the IJN) but the
I-171 takes 8 hits in reprisal. Yet she doesn't go down. 4 days later, the floatation damage is next to zero and she's ready to hunt again [;)] Could use a fleet of these boats ....

My experience has shown that since 1.8, it is damn near impossible to actually sink a sub.

I've been looking at the combat messages during ASW attacks. Seems that 1.8 changed a lot of what were formerly "hits" into "near miss dislodges CPO's false teeth," "pea bounces off sub's hull, rattles eligible seaman's nuts," and "near miss raises Davy Jones's laundry bill by ten bucks."

They are still reported as "hits," but there's little or no lasting damage. Good or bad, I don't know, but Ron likes it...

i agree...think the pendulum has swung the other way. Now you need at least 8 ASW ships in a TF to even have a shot at sinking subs

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

I've been looking at the combat messages during ASW attacks. Seems that 1.8 changed a lot of what were formerly "hits" into "near miss dislodges CPO's false teeth," "pea bounces off sub's hull, rattles eligible seaman's nuts," and "near miss raises Davy Jones's laundry bill by ten bucks."

They are still reported as "hits," but there's little or no lasting damage. Good or bad, I don't know, but Ron likes it...

Yep. Good results so far in my game. Only thing now is to increase the number of charges dropped by the DC racks since charges are now singles and not patterns.

I too have found that it is nearly impossible to sink a sub.....even against the AI

Which normally masses all of its subs along the northeast coast of OZ waiting for the depth charge buffet to be thrown at it.

Subs under 1.8 are actually dangerous

ORIGINAL: dpstafford
My experience has shown that since 1.8, it is damn near impossible to actually sink a sub.

Interesting, I would guess the opposite from what I've seen. I think I see less average damage per reported hit, but I definitely see more reports of a dozen plus hits that blow the sub into little pieces. Pretty much every time my Japanese sub shoots at something it gets hit and takes real damage. I don't assume 2 hits kills anymore, but my sub effectiveness has certainly not increased. It's not quite as bad as if the British multiplied across the map, but its not far short. (about 8 out of 10 subs deployed to the Indian ocean failed to return from their first mission).

Hermes was part of my ASW group and is definately NOT down to 0 damage after 4 days! Pre 1.8 2 RN DDs were enough to sink any IJN sub. Now I must consider using the max 6 ASW assets allowable under mine and Scott's house rules in each hunting group. It does seem to have been a big leap away from the previous model, but I have no idea which one is more accurate......

Is anyone using 1.8 on a post 1943 game? I'd be interested to know if improved ASW weapons suffer the same changes in effect.

Well done Scott, by the way. If Subs are now unsinkable I might move up my plans for a sub offensive......... (once all the ones I have been running round as evacuation transports have repaired!)

In my Nik Mod with it upgraded to 1.8, I have sunk over 4 subs off of Hawaii with ASW TF's of 6 or less DD's (all have an ASW rating of 4 or less). I recently loss my first Flush Deck. [:(]
But, a 4:1 ratio is something I can live with and if 1EyedJack wants to keep sending them there, I'm happy to kill them all!![:D]
I watch the combat replay carefully to see how many actual hits vs near misses for each attack. About 2 actual hits does in a Jap I-boat. [&o]

I too have been watching the ASW replays carefully and I would agree that the actual hits are very deadly. Used to be it took 3-4 "hits" to sink a sub. I have seen them go done under 1.8 with just one "real" hit.

It seems that the number of real hits has gone done and there are more near misses. I like this as it seems more real. Lots of damaged subs that have to go back to port, but fewer actaul kills.

I've lost a sub to a single mine hit under 1.8

even under the previous versions I've noticed that flood damage was always well controled for the IJN. it makes sense though that subs would have tight flood control measures.

Combination of every Indian base hosting a Dutch bomber group/Hudson group and a dedicated 6 ship ASW TF composed of the 6 best British DD's.

Took me about 10-12 days from the first sighting to the last sinking to trash the sub threat to India (but not before some 8 AK's came under torpedo attack sadly...2 sank)

Was also using the Long Island to host a VMSB sqdn on ASW orders followed by a 5 DD ASW group as a hunter killer team. Unfortunately a GD Glen equipped sub shadowed them and called in the KB [:@]

I've got a couple of IJN subs in serious trouble in a game I started after 1.8. I'm playing as Japan in the 1943 scenario against the Allied AI. I've played about 3 weeks so far; one sub was depth-charged near Diamond Harbour, and another in the Solomons. Not sure either will make it home.

By the way, I really enjoy the new ASW messages. They seem more "naval" now, hehe. Kinda make me want to fire up "Silent Hunter 3" again.

In a PBEM which has gone through Jan 42 started under v1.77 and now upgraded to v1.8 I have sunk 4 IJN I boats. Damage has been inflicted on about twice that amount though I've no real feel for how much. I've had a lot of my subs banged up pretty good by IJN ASW forces but I think have only lost 1 or 2 actually sunk.

I think that if you link ASW TFs ( about 10 ships in each) and aggressive air patrols and prosecution of contacts you can achieve good results under 1.8.

My opponent and I have been playing for 10 weeks ( game-time) under 1.795 and 1.8 and I think he has sunk about 4 of my subs with his ASW. I've managed to sink at least a dozen of his submarines with a similar number heavily damaged and send back to port.

The key, as always, is to commit the requisite resources in a pre-planned, cohesive manner and then let them do their work.

I dont see this problem. In post 1.8 games, the sub combat seems to work perfectly. Ive sunk some japanese subs, and Ive had some of my subs sunk. At the same time, the vast majority of ASW attacks ends up with the sub getting away...like it should. Seems perfectly balanced and historical to me.

In mine and Scott's game this incident was the first and only occurrence. I guess the sub skipper got lucky and the RN were asleep. Since then my IO ASW tfs have been regularly killing I-boats.

It is true subs are now very tough... At the end of december, as the Japanese player in a pbem game, I have lost only one sub...

But I have over 20 subs in varying damaged states, as those DCs may not have sunk them, but they definitely sent them home packing.