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a) I also see, on the first turn, the Africa front collapse. I had moved it during a scenario edit session and swapped some units around leaving it with roughly the same combat strength, but did not move it or move around any units when beginning play.

b) The air group exploit is still there. When you use an air group, and 'u' shows after it in the air group list, selecting the air group shows the display without the "(M)ission" button at the bottom. Someone using a mouse might think they can't change the mission setting after using the air group. I'm under the impression this is supposed to be true. However, you can still change its mission using the keyboard, by pressing 'M', even though the "(M)ission" button isn't there. You can thus use a fighter as an escort, and after the escort mission is done, switch it back to "cap" so it will perform in the combat phase, which it does. Personally, I think this should be allowed, as wasting planes by flying one single mission is usually not as helpfull as getting them to fly on multiple ground support missions during the combat phase. I would like to see the mission setting for fighters revert to "cap" after being used in a player selected mission, and bomber types revert to "ground attack" after a player directed mission so you don't have to reset their missions after you use them in a player directed mission. In any event, this is a loophole.

c) During airfield attacks, the defender is always shown as having exactly 200 flak guns. Is this supposed to be that way?

d) There is now a huge problem with the number of tanks and planes both sides start with in Campaign '41. Considering some info pointed out to me, the game gives the Germans 6,000 tanks starting in the tank pool, when historically there should only be, at most, about 1,500 tanks in their pool at the beginning. See my first post and the conversation there.

Ideas:

1) Could we make the "plot mode" automatic when the cursor is over a unit? Now, you have to press "Shift-P" to see the plot for that unit. I'd like to see the plot displayed automatically when the cursor is over a single unit, and using "Shift-P" over an empty square shows the plots for all units (as it does now).

2) Both sides historically used each other's tanks, but what about artillery? I seem to have read about the Germans using captured French artillery. If one or both sides used the other's artillery, maybe some portion of "destroyed" artillery could actually be transferred to the conquerer's pool to represent the use of the arty from the other side.


That's it for now ....

The Germans used A LOT of russian guns, and IIRC many divisions had no German guns in the TO&E. I when a Russian unit is shattered or surenders a % of the guns should go to the Germans or something like that. It would probably be the easest way to handle it.

Haupt

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

a) I also see, on the first turn, the Africa front collapse. I had moved it during a scenario edit session and swapped some units around leaving it with roughly the same combat strength, but did not move it or move around any units when beginning play.

This is a confirmed bug, and as you state, happens when the Italian Front is moved even one hex. There must be some trigger that even goes off when moved by the editor. Maybe the computer is looking for the "home" hex as compared to the hardcoded value in the .exe. If it can't find it, it thinks the front is shattered.

In either case definately a bugfix that requires coding, and will have to wait till our
programmer returns.

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

b) The air group exploit is still there. When you use an air group, and 'u' shows after it in the air group list, selecting the air group shows the display without the "(M)ission" button at the bottom. Someone using a mouse might think they can't change the mission setting after using the air group. I'm under the impression this is supposed to be true. However, you can still change its mission using the keyboard, by pressing 'M', even though the "(M)ission" button isn't there. You can thus use a fighter as an escort, and after the escort mission is done, switch it back to "cap" so it will perform in the combat phase, which it does. Personally, I think this should be allowed, as wasting planes by flying one single mission is usually not as helpfull as getting them to fly on multiple ground support missions during the combat phase. I would like to see the mission setting for fighters revert to "cap" after being used in a player selected mission, and bomber types revert to "ground attack" after a player directed mission so you don't have to reset their missions after you use them in a player directed mission. In any event, this is a loophole.

We'll have Arnaud look into this when he gets back. Good catch Ed!

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

c) During airfield attacks, the defender is always shown as having exactly 200 flak guns. Is this supposed to be that way?

I know we were told that the airfield flak was going to be increased slightly in an early build. I don't think we ever got a hard number on what that value was, but I have seen the 200 as well. I'd assume for now that it is a static increase across all airfields.

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

d) There is now a huge problem with the number of tanks and planes both sides start with in Campaign '41. Considering some info pointed out to me, the game gives the Germans 6,000 tanks starting in the tank pool, when historically there should only be, at most, about 1,500 tanks in their pool at the beginning. See my first post and the conversation there.

I had not been aware the the Scenario Editor added additional tanks into the pool, maybe Arnaud had not been either. Is this a Editor bug that needs to be fixed?

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

Ideas:

1) Could we make the "plot mode" automatic when the cursor is over a unit? Now, you have to press "Shift-P" to see the plot for that unit. I'd like to see the plot displayed automatically when the cursor is over a single unit, and using "Shift-P" over an empty square shows the plots for all units (as it does now).

Makes sense, have to see how hard this wold be to add in the code. It may be prohibitive, however.

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

2) Both sides historically used each other's tanks, but what about artillery? I seem to have read about the Germans using captured French artillery. If one or both sides used the other's artillery, maybe some portion of "destroyed" artillery could actually be transferred to the conquerer's pool to represent the use of the arty from the other side.

That's it for now .... [/B][/QUOTE]

The idea of adding in "captured" arty may not be a bad one (and I know that the Germans at least made wide us of all Artillery pieces they could capture.) We also had an idea of returning some of the casualties for a given unit back into a "pool" to simulate soldiers who were only wouldned and could return to duty after their recovery. We'll put this on the "wish list".

Regards,


Nick

About tank numbers:

from me

d) There is now a huge problem with the
number of tanks and planes both sides start
with in Campaign '41. Considering some info
pointed out to me, the game gives the Germans
6,000 tanks starting in the tank pool, when
historically there should only be, at most,
about 1,500 tanks in their pool at the
beginning.

from Nick

I had not been aware the the Scenario Editor added additional tanks into the pool, maybe Arnaud had not been either. Is this a Editor bug that needs to be fixed?

Hi, Nick!

If you go to the older game and load the original "obwir" file, the Campaign '41 scenario file, into editwir.exe, you'll discover a different set of numbers for tanks and airplanes then what you see if load the original "obwir" file into the scenario editor and immediately look at the tank and aircraft pools. The original "obwir" shows *no* tanks in either pool except for 200 R35 tanks. The numbers of starting aircraft are very different too.

I'm sure the original "obwir" file is correct for 2 reasons. First, the PzIIIh is a fairly new tank with several factories just starting to make them, except the scenario editor will put *800* of them in the pool, even though those factories switching to it haven't even started producing them. Second, an even more obvious example is the FW190 airplane. Only one or two factories for it exist at the beginning, and all of those are starting at a capacity of 1 with the full length delay for switching production still in effect. The editor will put several hundred of them in the pool, while "obwir" shows no FW190s in the starting pool. That plane, like the PzIIIh is a new item.

This has a *HUGE* impact on the game. Many panzer divisions will get *stronger* as 1941 develops because of 800 PzII's and 800 PzIIIh's in the pool. This of course is not historical. It is almost certainly a "bug" in the editor. There is no way Germany should start with 800 PzIIIh's in their pool. No way. Can you get some confirmation quickly from Gary that the original "obwir" is correct? For everyone else wanting to play with the original "obwir" numbers, see below.

Now someone pointed me to some info about the numbers of German tanks showing that even Gary's original numbers in "obwir" may be a little wrong as well (but not *nearly* as bad as what the editor does) but we can leave that debate for a version 3 or even later, but the editor "bug", and those 6,000 tanks that Germany didn't actually have, needs to be squashed quickly.


If you want the numbers from the original "obwir", make a backup just in case and then load the current "obwir" into editwir.exe. You can alter the starting number of tanks and aircraft with it.


Tanks:

No tanks of either side begin the game in the pool except for 200 R35 tanks on the German side.


German Planes:

400 Bf109E
400 Bf109F/G
200 Bf110C
200 Ju87
200 Ju88
200 Fokker
200 Ju52

Russian Planes:

400 I-16
200 Mig-1
400 Lagg-3
200 I-15

That's all folks.


[This message has been edited by Ed Cogburn (edited August 30, 2000).]