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just found problem with moving several (>1) groups of the same type to the pool from main national base (Osaka)

- disband some group in Osaka, ex. F1/13th Ftr.Chutai of 9 Nates
- planes to the pool, pilots to the named pool (ok)
- move to Osaka another Nate group, ex. 144th FtrSentai form Tokyo to Osaka
- disbanded Nate Sentai doesn't go to the pool but joins F1/13th Chutai instead which is already off-map
(sequence repeats in case of moving more groups during the same turn.)

now you can right away disband F1/13th once again and all pilots appear in the named pool. in case case you don't and close the sceen, all pilots from 144th Sentai staying in f1/13 which can't be accessed anymore. didn't check what happens next turn - this is pbem where every pilot matters

This is how it was supposed to work. If there is a group of the same Nationality/aircraft type then the disband functions normally.

The disband into pool is invoked only if there is no disband-into group.

in this case there is no real group on map/base anymore. it was just disbanded..

ORIGINAL: Helpless

in this case there is no real group on map/base anymore. it was just disbanded..

OK, send me a save.

save sent..

Out of interest I tried replicating this. Managed to duplicate the bug with 2 floatplane units ( both using Daves), 2 army fighter units ( both using Nates) and 2 navy fighter units ( both Claudes).

So it does appear to apply to units flying the same plane which disband at Osaka on the same day. The 2nd unit disbands into the 1st unit even though the 1st unit has been disbanded already and has disappeared from the map. End result, a daitai of Japanese pilots disappear.

Haven't tested the workaround of limiting disbanding to 1 daitai/sentai/chutai of a particular aircraft type per turn but it seems this might be a usable workaround.

Again this is PBEM so I've just frozen the turn until we can figure out a workaround or a fix so no save game is available at this time.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Out of interest I tried replicating this. Managed to duplicate the bug with 2 floatplane units ( both using Daves), 2 army fighter units ( both using Nates) and 2 navy fighter units ( both Claudes).

So it does appear to apply to units flying the same plane which disband at Osaka on the same day. The 2nd unit disbands into the 1st unit even though the 1st unit has been disbanded already and has disappeared from the map. End result, a daitai of Japanese pilots disappear.

Yes there is a problem here. It as actually a pre-existing one, not caused by 1.8.0.1. You-all just took to checking things out with the new fix. We're looking at it.

Also, the 2nd unit did not exactly disappear. It is merged into the first unit, which has a 90-day delay in arrival and is somewhat larger now.

Haven't tested the workaround of limiting disbanding to 1 daitai/sentai/chutai of a particular aircraft type per turn but it seems this might be a usable workaround.

I'm afraid the workaround will not work. The disband routine is detecting an airgroup "at" the national home base without properly checking to see if it has a delayed arrival. Waiting a day won't change anything - you'd have to wait until all airgroups of the same aircraft type had arrived.

Again this is PBEM so I've just frozen the turn until we can figure out a workaround or a fix so no save game is available at this time.

No save game is needed thanks - we can see it plain as day.

Ok thanks.

So, until this is fixed are we, in effect, limited to being able to get pilots into our named pilot pool from ONLY the first unit of each airplane type which disbands at Osaka? Further units of each airplane type will disband properly but will simply give their pilots to the first disbanded unit of that airplane type without adding these pilots to the named pilots list as was intended?

Just trying to clarify the situation as if that's the situation I'm going to redo my PBEM turn so that I don't disband and a 24-pilot daitai to no benefit.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Ok thanks.

So, until this is fixed are we, in effect, limited to being able to get pilots into our named pilot pool from ONLY the first unit of each airplane type which disbands at Osaka? Further units of each airplane type will disband properly but will simply give their pilots to the first disbanded unit of that airplane type without adding these pilots to the named pilots list as was intended?

Just trying to clarify the situation as if that's the situation I'm going to redo my PBEM turn so that I don't disband and a 24-pilot daitai to no benefit.

My experience shows that after disbanding 2nd same type airgroup to the already non-existant group, WITP gives you a screen of that non-existant group with combined amount of planes and pilots where you can disband it once again. In this case pilots from BOTH groups seems to appear in the named list. However without knowing all internals I prefer to keep disbanding only one group per turn until it fixed.

Don,

I know this is probably unwelcome but I think there's a very easy work-around for this. I'll give the Japanese example since that's the side I'm familiar with.

Since the bug appears to be that the game is dedecting an airgroup at the base without checking its arrival time and thus is disbanding the airgroups into daitai which have not yet arrived on-map a VERY simple intermediate solution would be to release a small update which would set one of the Japanese Home Island bases at which NO AIRCRAFT are due to arrive as a 2nd Home Base.


Thus we can disband our airgroups in this 2nd Home Base to our heart's content while waiting for the more complete bug-fix to come out. Since no airgroups are due at that base there is no possibility of the current bug being recreated.


I would imagine that nominating "secondary home bases" which fulfill this requirement should be relatively easy and while a bit ragged like most workarounds it would allow us to benefit from most of the functionality of this change without having to wait for a full update of the checking code etc etc.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Don,

I know this is probably unwelcome but I think there's a very easy work-around for this. I'll give the Japanese example since that's the side I'm familiar with.

Since the bug appears to be that the game is dedecting an airgroup at the base without checking its arrival time and thus is disbanding the airgroups into daitai which have not yet arrived on-map a VERY simple intermediate solution would be to release a small update which would set one of the Japanese Home Island bases at which NO AIRCRAFT are due to arrive as a 2nd Home Base.


Thus we can disband our airgroups in this 2nd Home Base to our heart's content while waiting for the more complete bug-fix to come out. Since no airgroups are due at that base there is no possibility of the current bug being recreated.


I would imagine that nominating "secondary home bases" which fulfill this requirement should be relatively easy and while a bit ragged like most workarounds it would allow us to benefit from most of the functionality of this change without having to wait for a full update of the checking code etc etc.

Nemo,

I belive you mean well. But expending LIMITED resources to program "band-aid workarounds" delays the actual fix of the problem which is the desired solution I hope. And that is where I believe resources should be 100% directed.

Flipper

Flipper,

Aye. On the other hand getting a band-aid fix in 2 days and delaying the full fix by 1 day if the full fix will only come out in 2 months is something many people will support. It is a question of how much the band-aid fix will cost in terms of delays vs how long we'll be waiting for the complete fix.

My experience shows that after disbanding 2nd same type airgroup to the already non-existant group, WITP gives you a screen of that non-existant group with combined amount of planes and pilots where you can disband it once again.

Helpless,

Sorry to bother you again but can you post a step by step for this... I've tried to do what I think you are doing but have just ended up disbanding the 2nd daitai into the 1st and there's no sign of the first anywhere.

What I did was:

1. Disband first Dave daitai in Osaka.
2. Move 2nd Dave daitai to Osaka.
3. Hit disband. A box now pops up telling me this daitai is disbanding into the 1st daitai.

I can't access the 1st daitai anywhere. It doesn't show up on the base screen, the airplanes at base screen or in the "list all land units" screen. Where are you finding it to disband the 1st daitai a 2nd time?

Thanks for any help.

Check the Aircraft Reinforcement Schedule for arrival in about 90 days.
Michael

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

My experience shows that after disbanding 2nd same type airgroup to the already non-existant group, WITP gives you a screen of that non-existant group with combined amount of planes and pilots where you can disband it once again.

Helpless,

Sorry to bother you again but can you post a step by step for this... I've tried to do what I think you are doing but have just ended up disbanding the 2nd daitai into the 1st and there's no sign of the first anywhere.

What I did was:

1. Disband first Dave daitai in Osaka.
2. Move 2nd Dave daitai to Osaka.
3. Hit disband. A box now pops up telling me this daitai is disbanding into the 1st daitai.

I can't access the 1st daitai anywhere. It doesn't show up on the base screen, the airplanes at base screen or in the "list all land units" screen. Where are you finding it to disband the 1st daitai a 2nd time?

Thanks for any help.

Here we go Nemo..

Starting situation IJA Named pool has 8 pilots.

1. Diband 1st Nates datai in Osaka to the pool. It dissappears from the map and no way to acces it anymore. IJA NP increased to 17
2. Move Nate sentai from Tokyo and disband it to the 1st Nate Datai. At that moment WITP brings screan with 1st Nate Datai with pilots from 2nd Sentai
3. Disband 1st Nate datai once again. IJA NP increased to 42!
4. Check AC reinforment schedule - both groups are scheduled to come in 90 days

So the trick is to click disband group button twice

I have a question on the pilot name pool. How do pilots in the name pool become available to fill out operational units? Thanks in advance

ORIGINAL: kbad

I have a question on the pilot name pool. How do pilots in the name pool become available to fill out operational units? Thanks in advance

Via the Get Pilot function - either the manual one using the "Get Pilot" buttons or automatically when pilots are needed to man planes assigned to a mission.

Pilots are drawn from the Named Pilot Pool, the generic pilot pool, and a not-really-there pool of untrained rookies (in that order).

Thanks for the quick answer!!! On the pilots assigned automatically, is that only where replacements allowed is on, or is that pilots historically assigned to the unit? Thanks in advance

quick question....is this right??

Named pilot pool - are pilots that had existed during game play, but where disbanded. These pilots have varying levels of experience depending on use of those pilots when they were in play.

Generic pilot pool - pilots that haven't entered the game yet, and when they do are assigned an experience level based on the year, and unit they fly for. (ie..US marines in 1942 have 60 exp level). This pool is dependent on the replacement rate shown in the pilot replacement screen.

Not-really there pilot pool - pilots that are just thrown in the hotseat when the above pools are dried up, with experience levels in the 30's..

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

quick question....is this right??

Named pilot pool - are pilots that had existed during game play, but where disbanded. These pilots have varying levels of experience depending on use of those pilots when they were in play.

The Named pilot pool is originally formed from pilots that were defined in the editor. Any of these pilots that have a delayed arrival will, of course, not be available until their delay runs down. Once their delay has expired they are available to their assigned groups WHEN NEEDED. If a group has more pilots arriving than it needs, the extra pilots go to the Named Pilot Pool. These pilots are linked to their assigned airgroup and can not be diverted to another airgroup.

Other Named Pilots can be created during game play by two methods:
1. Running-out-of-Pilots protection. When the number of available pilot slots reaches a certain level, the game will attempt to free up some pilots by pulling "extra" pilots from airgroups. Any airgroup that has significantly more pilots than it's maximum aircraft size will have some pilots pulled from the group and placed in the pool - thus becoming available for use in other squadrons.

2. Disband at Home Base. Another method of removing pilots from an airgroup for general use. The original intention of this feature was to give additional options when out-of-pilots was near by allowing the player to select less important airgroups for disbanding and freeing pilots for other airgroups. Also as a method of getting rid of small unwanted airgroups with obsolete aircraft that could not otherwise be disbanded and, in general, controlling airgroups on the board.

Generic pilot pool - pilots that haven't entered the game yet, and when they do are assigned an experience level based on the year, and unit they fly for. (ie..US marines in 1942 have 60 exp level). This pool is dependent on the replacement rate shown in the pilot replacement screen.

Not-really there pilot pool - pilots that are just thrown in the hotseat when the above pools are dried up, with experience levels in the 30's..

Correct.

Basically, the Generic Pilot pool represents newly trained but inexperienced pilots exiting a comprehensive pilot training program. The untrained pilot pool represents emergency pilots given minimum instruction and used in the deepest emergency (with hopes that they will survive on-the-job training).