Matrix Games Forums

I'd like to start by saying that the thing that REALLY hooked me on WIR was the great control of DETAIL that the game allows. Thank you VERY much. This is what Avalon Hill's "Third Reich" was always SUPPOSED to look like.

BUT ...

One of the true limiting factors on how fast a unit can move and what kinds of large units a country can form is the availability of TRUCKS. Can we get trucks in Version 3 or 4?

In particular, the Romanians suffered from a SEVERE shortage of trucks and so their "panzer division" generally operated as leg infantry with the Renault 17 tanks simply providing 1918-style fire support.

In 1942 the German stripped ALL of the trucks from infantry divisions in AG North and Center, leaving only corps and army level transportation battalions. If these divisions had been forced to MOVE they would have lost ALL of their heavy equipment, even if they displaced in clear weather in the middle of July.

The Russians are in the same boat and the basic reason that they operated scores of independent tank brigades in 1941 and 1942 is that Stalin had chosen to HALT the production of trucks in favor of more tanks (and started the war with a HUGE deficit of trucks, especially among artillery regiments). This meant that it was IMPOSSIBLE to form any large number of motor rifle regiments until the flood of American trucks shows up later on.

And of course in Version 5 we need to start worrying about HORSES, the Germans were down by something like 300,000 draft horses by the Spring of '42 and the Romanians had one of the lowest allocations of HORSES per infantry division of any army in the war ...

(I'll keep right on playing in ancitipation of the horses.)

Originally posted by Vinnie O:

One of the true limiting factors on how fast a unit can move and what kinds of large units a country can form is the availability of TRUCKS. Can we get trucks in Version 3 or 4?

Sorry Vinnie, there are no more major changes being done now. We are strictly concerned with bugs, and in getting the scenarios up to date. This upgrade of WiR is not an open-ended process, there probably won't be a version 4 or 5, this whole thing could be over in about one to two months.

Originally posted by Vinnie O:
I'd like to start by saying that the thing that REALLY hooked me on WIR was the great control of DETAIL that the game allows. Thank you VERY much. This is what Avalon Hill's "Third Reich" was always SUPPOSED to look like.

BUT ...

One of the true limiting factors on how fast a unit can move and what kinds of large units a country can form is the availability of TRUCKS. Can we get trucks in Version 3 or 4?

In particular, the Romanians suffered from a SEVERE shortage of trucks and so their "panzer division" generally operated as leg infantry with the Renault 17 tanks simply providing 1918-style fire support.

In 1942 the German stripped ALL of the trucks from infantry divisions in AG North and Center, leaving only corps and army level transportation battalions. If these divisions had been forced to MOVE they would have lost ALL of their heavy equipment, even if they displaced in clear weather in the middle of July.

The Russians are in the same boat and the basic reason that they operated scores of independent tank brigades in 1941 and 1942 is that Stalin had chosen to HALT the production of trucks in favor of more tanks (and started the war with a HUGE deficit of trucks, especially among artillery regiments). This meant that it was IMPOSSIBLE to form any large number of motor rifle regiments until the flood of American trucks shows up later on.

And of course in Version 5 we need to start worrying about HORSES, the Germans were down by something like 300,000 draft horses by the Spring of '42 and the Romanians had one of the lowest allocations of HORSES per infantry division of any army in the war ...

(I'll keep right on playing in ancitipation of the horses.)

Vinnie,

The Germans never had enough trucks! They didn't have the mass production capabilities we had, and any way they didn't go into full War Production until 1943! There is a story about either 1st SS or 2nd SS that found some Jimmy's (GMC) truck when the conquered FRance, we had shipped them to the France prior to the Fall! Anyway they, the SS, love those trucks and took them into Russia an literally drove them into the ground, the Germans could not match out equipment for dependability. Also we shipped the Russians 250,000 2 and 1/2 ton 6x6 trucks, thru Iran! This allowed them to motorize their infantry and get there firstest with the mostest.

CliffC

Originally posted by CliffC:
Vinnie,

The Germans never had enough trucks! They

That's interesting. I'd always thought it was their limited fuel capacity that caused them to rely on mules and horses so much, and save their fuel for the panzers.

Is this information on the net somewhere? If it is I'd really appreciate a URL to it. Thanks.

Hehe don't believe everything on the net buy a book . And a good one is Soldat, in it the writer Siegfried Knappe, talks about the lack of trucks and horses! He actually had to buy his own horse to ride into Russia. And that there was a great need for trucks that were not available to them. He was an Artillery Officer and they had to use horses to pull the guns into battle in the early part of the Russian war. There was some trucks for guns but he writes that there where not nearly enough for all.

My grandfather was in the Wehrmacht in an artillery abteilung.There he repaired the saddles and pulling equipment (sorry, don´t know the English word). He told me horses were used all over the war in the most infantry or mountain divisions (mostly for pulling medium and light artillery).

Originally posted by tsbond:
Hehe don't believe everything on the net buy a book

Why should books be any different? You shouldn't believe everything you read in books either!


[This message has been edited by Ed Cogburn (edited November 24, 2000).]

Ed:

That's interesting. I'd always thought it was their limited fuel capacity that caused them to rely on mules and horses so much, and save their fuel for the panzers.

Most people have visions of masses of German armour slicing through defenses and rushing forward. The truth is that the Wermacht in WWII was still an infantry army that traveled on its feet and on its horses.

And that's (amone many other reasons)why Barbarossa had failed. There were not nearly enough of mobile troops as Germans advanced far in Russia and stretched front line. Barbarossa was very unbalanced campain plan. Bad mark for German General Staff.