Matrix Games Forums

Ok, I'm trying to get in to the game but I just can't find answers to some of my questions.
I've read the manual several times and looked online.

Here's a big one... how does supply work? What do those circles with numbers in them on the map really mean?

I'm not new to wargames but I am new to TOAW, I tried it years ago but this time I'm really trying to learn the game and get in to it.

Thanks for the help!

Those represent the nominal re-supply rate for friendly units in the hex. This is adjusted by multiplying this number by [(2/3)*formation supply distribution efficiency] to determine the net resupply rate for an arbitrary friendly unit in the hex, subject to other modifiers as listed in the manual.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Those represent the nominal re-supply rate for friendly units in the hex. This is adjusted by multiplying this number by [(2/3)*formation supply distribution efficiency] to determine the net resupply rate for an arbitrary friendly unit in the hex, subject to other modifiers as listed in the manual.

Ok, what does this mean then:

Unit is on the following hex:
Unit Formation Supply: 75%
Supply Circle Icon says: 28

.66*75 = 49.5 * 28 = 1386

What is 1386?

Basically, how should I pay attention to these numbers?
It seems odd that those numbers then need the users to do all these additional calculations. I just want to know is the unit in supply, and how much in supply?

I wish there was a supply tutorial, that would help tons! :

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

.66*75 = 49.5 * 28 = 1386

What is 1386?

Supply distribution is in terms of %, so that would be (49.5/100)*28=13.86=14.

Therefore, that unit, with no further modifications, would get 14 added to its supply during the next Automatic Bookkeeping Phase.

So, what is the best way to think about this? Do you really need to do all those calculations to figure out your unit's suppply? And you say 14 is added to it's supply. What does that mean, 14? Where and what is 14 added to?

I really would like to know how much and what kind of attention I should pay to these supply numbers since they aren't telling the complete story.

Thanks for the help!

Select the unit, right click to being up the context menu, and choose Unit Report. Notice the information at the top of this page? The value "Supply" which generally ranges from 1-100 (but can go as high as 150 for unmoved units), is what this re-supply rate is added to. It is an important value that affects the unit in several ways, ranging from combat strength to movement allowance.

My quota of easy answers is used up for the next couple of hours, so you'll have to read the manual for more details...[;)]

Ok, thanks for the help. So that is the number that is added to the Supply % for the unit.
By the way none of that is listed as such in the manual.

I still don't understand why it has to be so cryptic. Why not just tell the player what is really going on and let the computer do the calculations? Why not just have the hex number tell the user what the final result is?

Do people really play like that? That doesn't seem fun at all, more like doing a budget!

It seems odd that I would have to break the gameplay to get out the calculator and figure out if my units will be in supply.

There has to be a better way than that!?!

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

I still don't understand why it has to be so cryptic. Why not just tell the player what is really going on and let the computer do the calculations? Why not just have the hex number tell the user what the final result is?

Do people really play like that? That doesn't seem fun at all, more like doing a budget!

It seems odd that I would have to break the gameplay to get out the calculator and figure out if my units will be in supply.

There has to be a better way than that!?!

It really isn't as hard as it looks at first. Supply isn't important enough for players to calculate every turn for each unit. You can get a general overview of your units state by looking at the color box in the upper-right hand corner. It goes from dark green (best state) to bright red (worst).

ORIGINAL: AstroCat
Ok, thanks for the help. So that is the number that is added to the Supply % for the unit.
By the way none of that is listed as such in the manual.

It is. See the paragraphs on page 27, headed by Unit Supply.

ORIGINAL: AstroCat
I still don't understand why it has to be so cryptic. Why not just tell the player what is really going on and let the computer do the calculations? Why not just have the hex number tell the user what the final result is?

It's not cryptic. The number in the hex is a base rate for the hex. The "final result" will depend on the formational supply distribution efficiencies of the different unit's parent formation, and thus will vary. Which of nine possible numbers do you want the "final result" to be?

The computer does the calculations. However, if you want to have a better understanding of the net effect, then a quick multiplication in your head can give you a ball park, "seat of your pants" number to expect. If it varies by a couple of points, the world will not come crashing down on you. I guarantee it...[;)]

ORIGINAL: AstroCat
Do people really play like that? That doesn't seem fun at all, more like doing a budget!

It seems odd that I would have to break the gameplay to get out the calculator and figure out if my units will be in supply.

There has to be a better way than that!?!

If you have the supply circles, then unless your opponent cuts off your line of communication during his turn, your units will be in supply. No need to break out the calculator. The graphics will tell you whether you have supply or not.

Again, don't sweat the small stuff. A good seat of your pants estimate for "usual" distribution efficiencies is to multiply the number in hex, by 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2, for effective resupply rate. That's because often you end up with formation efficiencies of 40-80, which, when multiplied by (2/3) will net approximately between .25-.50.

Hmm.. about supply... I forgot when the little supply circles mean when they are all-white, half-blue and half-red... don't remember if that means supply for player only (half-blue), supply for enemy only (half-red) or supply for both (full white).. is that right?

Thanks!
F.

ORIGINAL: fbastos
Hmm.. about supply... I forgot when the little supply circles mean when they are all-white, half-blue and half-red... don't remember if that means supply for player only (half-blue), supply for enemy only (half-red) or supply for both (full white).. is that right?

This, I'd like to know too - haven't been able to find the info in the manual.

ORIGINAL: MrMox

ORIGINAL: fbastos
Hmm.. about supply... I forgot when the little supply circles mean when they are all-white, half-blue and half-red... don't remember if that means supply for player only (half-blue), supply for enemy only (half-red) or supply for both (full white).. is that right?

This, I'd like to know too - haven't been able to find the info in the manual.

I am the third who wants to know what those types of circle means.[&:]

ORIGINAL: fbastos

Hmm.. about supply... I forgot when the little supply circles mean when they are all-white, half-blue and half-red... don't remember if that means supply for player only (half-blue), supply for enemy only (half-red) or supply for both (full white).. is that right?

Thanks!
F.

Yes, except that colours are not fixed: you can have the blue dots and the enemy the red ones or the other way round. It's a value fixed in the scenario editor. You can tell which ones are yours by looking at the mini map. Colours match between this and the supply dsiplay.

Hope it helps

Marc

IIRC each team (red and blue) have supply indicators with the corresponding colors. So check from which direction you are coming, look at the supply counter(s) on your side (usually near the edge of the map), and that will tell you which color corresponds to your side.

BTW, the amount of supply for each unit is indicated in the icon information on the top right when you run your cursor over a unit.

Also when you turn on the supply indicator in each hex, note that the supply available usually decreases as you move away from a supply source, which means that you will get less supply as you get further. In some scenarios (e.g. Rommel in Africa) these numbers can even get smaller than 10, which indicates that the Germans will have a major problem keeping their units supplied.

What you need to know is that if the supply number in the hex is small, it will take a longer time for a unit on that hex to resupply than if the number is high. With high numbers, units will resupply in one move, whereas with small numbers, it can take multiple moves to fully resupply. for example if the number is 20, you will get no more than 20% supplies added to a unit if it stops for one move, less if it moves - not counting other factors that resduce supply.[>:]

There is no point in checking the supply level of each unit on each move - just keep your eye on the supply levels in general. It is much more important to keep your eye on the color of the little square on the top of each unit - if it is red, try to keep out of combat. [X(]

Henri

ORIGINAL: AstroCat
Do people really play like that?

I don't. I go by the almighty "higher is better, really low is bad m'kay" alorithm. [:D]

A quick scan of the map reveals what is maximum at the supply points. Then there are various degrees of supply around the map that are always lower/worse than this, how bad it is depends on what fraction of the supply-point value this is. In many (most?) cases this is all that is needed, really...

ORIGINAL: Fredrik Rask

ORIGINAL: AstroCat
Do people really play like that?

I don't. I go by the almighty "higher is better, really low is bad m'kay" alorithm. [:D]

A quick scan of the map reveals what is maximum at the supply points. Then there are various degrees of supply around the map that are always lower/worse than this, how bad it is depends on what fraction of the supply-point value this is. In many (most?) cases this is all that is needed, really...

And in some cases even less. I for one only leave on the map the supply sources, only caring about knowing whether the units are supplied or not. The actual level of supply I leave it to the abstracted logisitics officers and clercks to take care of [8D]

Works in most cases for me, but your mileage may vary.

Yes, except that colours are not fixed: you can have the blue dots and the enemy the red ones or the other way round. It's a value fixed in the scenario editor. You can tell which ones are yours by looking at the mini map. Colours match between this and the supply dsiplay.

Thank you, Nemo, appreciate it.

F.

http://www.wargamer.com/toaw/scenplay/strategy.htm got me started. Brilliant. And excellent on supply too, for those with math.

I wish Matrix had somewhere we could post such material for read/download. We're in danger of losing it. Any time I find it I usually these days copy to my HD since I've seen so much TOAW stuff disappear.

ORIGINAL: General Staff

http://www.wargamer.com/toaw/scenplay/strategy.htm got me started. Brilliant. And excellent on supply too, for those with math.

I wish Matrix had somewhere we could post such material for read/download. We're in danger of losing it. Any time I find it I usually these days copy to my HD since I've seen so much TOAW stuff disappear.

If you care to post it to the 'War Room' on the Matrix site, I'll put together a Sticky (as soon as I can get moderator privleges for the sub-forums, anyway<g>) They've got my evil twin as moderator.

I've tried but currently it seems only GIF/JPG/TXT foramts are supported for upload.