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What's the relation between replacement level of a HQ and max OP points available? This is all the info the manual gives, it does not explain if the max OP points a HQ unit can receive goes UP or DOWN when you change the level?

Does the HQ level affect in-division replacements or just how likely AI is to plug those infantry divisions into panzer corps?

If I crank up the replacement level of 1st panzer army, they'll get priority for Pz IIIs pool over the other panzer armies? Does this affect equipment upgrade likelihood as well?

Yes, I know, "no new code", but .. I feel the replacement logic should be looked into. As it is, AI is far too eager to put divisions from HQs into Corps. You get disorganization problems when you have 6 infantry divisions in one corps etc. It's very difficult to maintain reinforcement reserves since AI will plug your front-line reserves into corps as soon as you assign them..

Yes it seems that keeping an Op reserve reqires you to have good leaders in N,C,South
HQ's (or for the soviets,rear echelon HQ's) with high replace rates then creating new corps, transfering those div's and Bn's into the Corps and getting those units into
critical areas PDQ.Otherwise they get allocated usually where you do'nt want them.
I keep very few Div's/Bn's in army HQ's and most in Front HQ's exct.

Originally posted by ollittm:
What's the relation between replacement level of a HQ and max OP points available? This is all the info the manual gives, it does not explain if the max OP points a HQ unit can receive goes UP or DOWN when you change the level?

The replacement level decides how many OPs the HQ gets up to the 60% replacement level. You can't go higher than 60 OPs (once blitzkreig supply is over) in a turn, so beyond that your replacement level is only controlling the replacements coming into your units.

Does the HQ level affect in-division replacements or just how likely AI is to plug those infantry divisions into panzer corps?

Just in-division replacements, the AI code is separate.

If I crank up the replacement level of 1st panzer army, they'll get priority for Pz IIIs pool over the other panzer armies? Does this affect equipment upgrade likelihood as well?

No they'll just get more PzIIIs, up to the max limit, than anybody else if they're replacement level is the highest of all the panzer divisions.

Yes, I know, "no new code", but .. I feel the replacement logic should be looked into. As it is, AI is far too eager to put divisions from HQs into Corps.

Improving the AI is what I'd call lots of "new code". Arnaud will come back to AI issues at some, possibily distant, time in the future if Matrix lets him, in the meanwhile we want to get play balance close to right, and just fix major bugs.

The replacement level decides how many OPs the HQ gets up to the 60% replacement level. You can't go higher than 60 OPs (once blitzkreig supply is over) in a turn, so beyond that your replacement level is only controlling the replacements coming into your units.

Ok.

So what's the deal with corps attached to N/C/S HQs? Do they get early pick of the replacements and HQs attached to regional HQs get the leftovers?

Does regional HQ replacement level directly affect what invidual HQs get based on a

while (region_strength[x] < level) then
{
get more stuff from pool
}
-style logic?

Or is it a way to emphasis one region over other so that army group north would get 80/(80+70+60) percent of total replacements available in pool? If there is stuff left over from the allocated portion of the pool, it will NOT be distributed to other regions?

Assuming N/C/S has been set to those levels.

Improving the AI is what I'd call lots of "new code". Arnaud will come back to AI issues at some, possibily distant, time in the future if Matrix lets him, in the meanwhile we want to get play balance close to right, and just fix major bugs.

Whatever is done, maybe someone should sit on Arnaud until he puts on paper (txt-file anyways) how this stuff works. Doesn't matter who does it as someone does

Sort of run-down on how the game engine does things. It'd make it easier to plan changes in code/rules too.

In any case, I take it that right now the correct thing to do is to keep reserves in OKH/italy/west HQs and transfer them to front line corps directly as needed? No keeping divisions in HQs?

How does OKH/OKW replacement level affect build-up of divisions assigned to them? E.g. Brandenburg mot division seems to build up slowly to full strength even if the replacement level would suggest it shouldn't?

Speaking of full stregth units.. It'd be neat to have full strength unit values written down somewhere for clarification..

AFAIK german infantry division has full stregth of 333 and Pz Division of about 660.

Pz Bn max seems to be about 60.

Speaking of full stregth units.. It'd be neat to have full strength unit values written down somewhere for clarification..

AFAIK german infantry division has full stregth of 333 and Pz Division of about 660.

Pz Bn max seems to be about 60.[/B][/QUOTE]

Lets start with a normal German infantry division. When a new full strength infantry division is added, the normal strength is inf-220, art-52, A/T-48, flak-20, and recon-10 for a full strength of 350. However at the start of the game there are no recon vehicles in the pool and very few flak guns so the number is usually 320. As the war progresses and Germany starts to produce more flak guns and recon vehicles the maximun strength for an infantry division rises. The maximum number for any individual component of an infantry division I have seen is inf-216, art-56, A/T-57, flak-20, and recon-16. If you add all those together you get 365 and I have actually seen 356 but your figure of 333 is a good average. Now sometime after Jan 1943 some German infantry divisions get a Jpz Bat added and those units have a maximun number of 22 vehicles which count as 66 for a units combat value. The theoretical combat value for one of those infantry divisions would be 431 and I have actually seen 421.

Before I get to the panzer divisions I'll mention the maximun values for independent sub units. A panzer battalion has a normal number of 75 tanks but I have seen as high as 84 tanks. For Jpz and Stug battalions the normal number is 45 vehicles but I have seen as high as 54. For independent arty and flak battalions the normal number is 110 but I have seen numbers as high as 116.

For panzer divisions the normal numbers are inf-230, art-56, A/T-54, flak-80, and recon-50 but I have seen numbers as high as inf-226, art-63, A/T-62, flak-80, and recon-50. Before I add all those up I have to include the attached tank battalions and there could be four of them. At 84 tanks per battalion that adds up to 336 tanks. Multiply that by 3 and you get 1008. Add that number to the maximum I have seen for the indigenous units of 481 and you would get 1489. I don't have a saved game in the late 1942 early 1943 time frame so can't tell you what I have seen but after 1943 when one of the Pz Bns is converted to a Stug Bn, the maximum value I have see for a panzer division is 1354. For the PzG Div it is more complicated because of the variety of attached AFV battalions and Bats but for a non SS division the maximum value I have seen is 782. For the SS PzG divisions they have both a panzer battalion and a Stug battalion so there combat value is over 800.

Those numbers are the values you will see inside a Korps shell, the actual combat value for the Korps will be a product of those numbers times the experience and readiness added up.

Hope that helps.

Svar

Originally posted by Svar:
Hope that helps.

Sure does .. But this sort of thing should be included as tables with the docs?

Like right now the special supply cost has been modified, what, 3 times? It'd be neat to have that kind of info for easy reference..

Originally posted by Barleyman:
Sure does .. But this sort of thing should be included as tables with the docs?

Like right now the special supply cost has been modified, what, 3 times? It'd be neat to have that kind of info for easy reference..

The readme that comes with the updates will tell you what has been changed. The manual is in the proprietary Adobe format, which means you have to have a PDF editor. We don't have one of those. So the manual is unlikely to be updated.

Originally posted by Barleyman:
So what's the deal with corps attached to N/C/S HQs? Do they get early pick of the replacements and HQs attached to regional HQs get the leftovers?

No, there is nothing "special" about having a unit assigned to an intermediate HQ. The units get replacements based on the intermediate HQ's level.

Does regional HQ replacement level directly affect what invidual HQs get

No, but the intermediate HQs can provide OPs to front-line HQs if those latter HQs run short.

Or is it a way to emphasis one region over other so that army group north would get 80/(80+70+60) percent of total replacements available in pool? If there is stuff left over from the allocated portion of the pool, it will NOT be distributed to other regions?

No, nothing that complicated.

In any case, I take it that right now the correct thing to do is to keep reserves in OKH/italy/west HQs and transfer them to front line corps directly as needed? No keeping divisions in HQs?

No, there is a very important function HQs do, that is providing reinforcements to a battle, based on the skill of the HQ commander. Units with high readiness in the HQ might be transferred to a corps it the moment of combat, so its like over-filling a corps without the readiness penalty for over-filling. Of course, you have to yank them back the next turn. When you're on the offensive, some prefer not to do this, as keeping track of your reinforcer units can be tedious. On the attack I keep my HQs empty keeping all my units in corps on the front line, but if on defense, I'll pull out some good div/bn from my units have them reinforce when on defense.

How does OKH/OKW replacement level affect build-up of divisions assigned to them?

Its the same as having that unit in any other HQ. Note that OKH/OKW HQs can help HQs assigned to them by giving them OPs if they are low, like the other HQs.

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

The readme that comes with the updates will tell you what has been changed.

In theory. In practice it'd take less time to write a short table with the relevant op point costs + readiness losses + terrain modifiers than it takes to argue about it. I could do it myself, only I'd likely get it wrong as I'd have to hunt for the changes through 3 revisions of update notes..

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

No, but the intermediate HQs can provide OPs to front-line HQs if those latter HQs run short.

Hmm. That's very useful. Is this based on the replacement level of either HQ? How about trickle-down effect? Can you get op points from OKW->OKH->North army group->4th Pz army if I've foolishly used my op points for special supply?

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
No, there is a very important function HQs do, that is providing reinforcements to a battle, based on the skill of the HQ commander. Units with high readiness in the HQ might be transferred to a corps it the moment of combat, so its like over-filling a corps without the readiness penalty for over-filling. Of course, you have to yank them back the next turn.

Ok, all right, now I see what the problem is.
AI really really should get those units BACK to the HQ automagically after the battle. That way it'd work without being an enormous hassle.

And likely this would not require too much new code :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Barleyman:
In theory. In practice it'd take less time to write a short table with the relevant op point costs + readiness losses + terrain modifiers than it takes to argue about it.

In reality only the programmer would be able to do the table you want, as he's the only one who knows all the large and small changes in the game, but he's still busy programming.

Originally posted by Barleyman:
No, but the intermediate HQs can provide OPs to front-line HQs if those latter HQs run short.


Hmm. That's very useful. Is this based on the replacement level of either HQ? How about trickle-down effect? Can you get op points

Don't know, its not under human control or inspection, its done automatically by the game.

Ok, all right, now I see what the problem is. AI really really should get those units BACK to the HQ automagically after the battle. That way it'd work without being an enormous hassle. And likely this would not require too much new code

This was discussed and discarded as several/many people do not want that to happen, they'd rather control it manually.

You've come late to this party I'm afraid Barleyman, sorry. Arnaud has spent months of his freetime working on WiR, at this point nothing requiring significant new code is being considered, and this would require significant new code.

AI really really should get those units BACK to the HQ automagically after the battle.

This was discussed and discarded as several/many people do not want that to happen, they'd rather control it manually.

You bunch of micromanagers and control freaks, you..

Looks like I have to make do without any HQ reinforcements in future as well.

You've come late to this party I'm afraid Barleyman, sorry. Arnaud has spent months of his freetime working on WiR, at this point nothing requiring significant new code is being considered, and this would require significant new code.

On the contrary, I tried out all of the 2.x versions but as I didn't feel they were playable I didn't put too much effort into the game. Never tried original WIR, either.

That time was well-spent on CMBO, thought

On the topic of front HQs. I use them to store troops that I am transfering from Germany to the frontlines. The rail transfer costs them a considerable amount of readiness so a few weeks sitting in a interm HQ helps a lot. For me getting a unit to the frontlines is a several week process unless I am in a real hurry. Also as OKH or OKW fill up you need some place to put the troops since I hate having them vanish off the bottom of the list, since I am not sure they get replacements or train when that happens.
Also when a unit gets very burned out I send it to a city and change it to the front HQ this allows for rebuilding (as the front HQ has 100% replacement).
The 2nd Army is I believe the historical reserve of the east front and I use it more or less as that. Against a human I would move it to the polesti area and give it some planes to keep the russian honest.
I normally give all high level HQs 100 replacement, West-Italian get (80+5/year), infantry get 80, panzer get 90, hungarian-italian-rummanian get 100.
Note the max number of planes you get per group is 2xreadiness level.

On the soviet side I divide the HQs into training HQ and combat HQ. The combat HQ tend to have replacement 60 (moscow and Lennigrad HQs are usually 80) and the training gets 100.
This preserves experience in the frontline units while giving the new troops the personel
and equipment they need. I tend to also have air training HQs and group the planes by type in some cases (the HQ that starts in the caucuses gets all the IL-60s while the one in stalingrad gets all the Pe2s-yank fighter bombers).

With the russians it is important to note that the leadership rating effects the resupply so keep a good leader in the new troop HQ (RSVK if memory serves) so they get first call on equipement.

On a side note I had a Guard Division show up before septemeber when playing the soviets (a unit ended up fighting in the marsh and boy did its experience go up) which I didn't think was possible has the code changed here?