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Hello everyone. I want to ask you about your panzer-corps tactics.

Ive counted the hexes from the june 1941 frontline to a line just east of Rostov-Moscow-Leningrad. If the germans move the longest way the length is about 28 hexes i.e it would take the infantry teoretical about 14 turns to complete this movement. Thus bringing the germans to a respectable line just before the mud sets in at the beginning of october.

I was therefore wondering if its necessary to push your panzer forward to much. If you could use the panzer in a supportive role rather than in an advancing it might be possible to advance slow but more secure.

I feel that a to quick advance by the panzer due to weak supply-rules brings failure. Moreover the russians have a big advantage when their increasing strenght in august-september can exploit the disorder in the german advance.

Whats your opinion? How do you use your panzer, and can a slow advance as I suggest be successful? The point here of course beeing an early dig in with the goal of a 1942 summer offensive.

I use them as high firepower mobile units. So, I surround and/or destroy enemy troops if my supply doesn't allow me to advance too far. In case of defensive position,you can stop enemy advance only with a help of well coordinated panzer counter attacks.

I try to push forward with the panzers to the limit of their supply, concentrating on cutting off and destroying Soviet units at that point, as Mist stated. The infantry can be moved 5 hexes if the supply level permits, so they can follow up more quickly than just plotting 2 hexes of movement. Concentrating on the infantry plotting two hexes can delay your rail conversion, so I think you have to push early anyway with the panzers.

Regarding supply and dropping combat value, the panzers recover very quickly as they do not lose equipment as quickly as before, and after a turn or two in supply after being out they can be back up to 100+ for CV.

There is almost no way to reach Moscow in the current version, but Leningrad is a very reachable target. The key for it can be to drive east to cut the supply line over Lake Ladoga first, although it probably can be done without this, just very costly and some luck involved.

Doing this, you can reach Vyazma and Rhzev west of Moscow and use them to strengthen the defense in the blizzard. However, in the current version this won't help (or entrenchments either), which is why I am not playing it until this is fixed soon. It will also give the Axis a chance to reach Moscow and actually capture it, if it tests out as expected.

Pèanzers must be used aggresively or the Russians are never surrounded and soon build up to impossible strength.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kuniworth:
Hello everyone. I want to ask you about your panzer-corps tactics.

Ive counted the hexes from the june 1941 frontline to a line just east of Rostov-Moscow-Leningrad. If the germans move the longest way the length is about 28 hexes i.e it would take the infantry teoretical about 14 turns to complete this movement. Thus bringing the germans to a respectable line just before the mud sets in at the beginning of october.

I was therefore wondering if its necessary to push your panzer forward to much. If you could use the panzer in a supportive role rather than in an advancing it might be possible to advance slow but more secure.

I feel that a to quick advance by the panzer due to weak supply-rules brings failure. Moreover the russians have a big advantage when their increasing strenght in august-september can exploit the disorder in the german advance.

Whats your opinion? How do you use your panzer, and can a slow advance as I suggest be successful? The point here of course beeing an early dig in with the goal of a 1942 summer offensive.[/QUOT

In the games I have played by PBEM I make a agressive use of panzer Korps. I make the attack with 2 or 3 korps and one of them go forward,no matter stay in supply 0 next turn, to a concrete important objective (a city, bridgehead ...). In the same turn the two others can advance two hexes by the supply. Next the unsupplied panzer Korps go back to stay in supply 1 and one or both Korps advance to secure the conquest or go onward. Because the low supply this units are airlifted ( I use all JU-52 from map so can raise readiness of one panzer Korps 40-50%)so they have enough strength to attack with success. Next the first korps is now ready to continue the attack and make pressure to the defender.Is very useful in 1941 campaign because you dont worry of a soviet counterattack but is essential secure the rail lines so can advance forward with more strenght.

In the games I've played I've been able to reach Leningrad,Tula,Rostov line by late September or mid October. I was able to take Leningrad once but usually my units are really exausted by this time and trying for Moscow or Leningrad is asking for trouble. This is when I dig in and spread out some panzer korps behind the lines to try and deal with any Russian breakthru along the front. Only time I ever had a disaster is if I try and go for Moscow at this time. Heh having Panzer divisions with about 30 tanks each is bad for an offensive. I always try and keep my panzers in supply. Loose too much equipment when they are not. Do my best to encircle everything I can and let the infantry mop up.

My games usually last until early or late 44 because I set my victory onjectives to,1 Leningrad,1 Moscow,1 Kazan,1 Stalingrad,1 Baku. This adds more of a challenge and to me represents how hard it would be to win in Russia. Course I have games that go into 45 if I have some major losses and have no hope of winning. Especialy if the West or Itallian fronts collapse and I need to reinforce them.

When I played hot seat with a friend of mine a few years ago he was able to hold my units outside Kiev until winter,ouch. Heh game ended in a draw with him outside Ploesti and Pskov. Bugger also bombed the heck out of Ploesti and Bucharest. Think in 44 oil production was at 11 or so in Ploesti.

In Summer '41 I tend to form 2 types of panzer korps: the first is the standard "heavy" with CV 100+ when well supplied, the second type is "light", created with the PZ korps not yet deployed in June, which is formed up with single motorized division, cavalry, Jpz batallions, the 2 panzer brigade in France ecc. (all mobile units, no panzer korps of infantry).
The heavy supports the infantry breaking the russian lines and making north-south raids (or makes rings around the enemy) to cut out the russian armies, which are attacked in the same turn by infantry plotted "000XX" for delay the attack until after the panzers has cut the enemy retreat; in such way they remain relatively well supplied (ideally, they don't remain never detached from the main line).
The light type makes the heavy penetration in areas not well defended or after the breakthrough created by the heavy, hunting HQ, occupying rear area objectives such as bridgeheads, railways, ecc.; or use them to link the heavy to the main german line when it's necessary use them for overcome heavy opposition.
In such manner the panzers don't get too much attrition and the german infantry makes good progression forward.
Another trick I use is spoiling the southern front of as much air and panzer as possible, for reach Smolensk and Leningrad for the end of July or early August.
I've had a difficult time to stop the germans from reaching Moscow in '41 even against a human opponent with this tactics.