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I've managed to build strong defensive position along the river bank when has been playing campaign'44 as German. River affects odds very much when attacker has tanks. When Soviet unit tried to attack across the river and had less squads than my dug-in defending unit had, odds always were very low(about 0-2) even when attacker had 200+ and defender had none. Bug or feature?

Originally posted by Mist:
I've managed to build strong defensive position along the river bank when has been playing campaign'44 as German. River affects odds very much when attacker has tanks. When Soviet unit tried to attack across the river and had less squads than my dug-in defending unit had, odds always were very low(about 0-2) even when attacker had 200+ and defender had none. Bug or feature?

Feature. The manual talks about River effects on combat. I don't have it handy, but I believe non-AFVs are halved for combat across a river while AFVs are quartered. This is why you do so well against Soviets with few squads but lots of AFVs. Rivers are great defensive terrain in the game, just as in reality.

Thanx, for all today answers Ricky! I 've looked at the manual before posting. It says that tank strength is reduced to 1/3 and infantry strength is halved. As I understand it, it means that only part of troops shows up in combat. But I had examples when 300 German squads hold position against 250 Soviet squads supported by hundreds of tanks. I 've calculated Soviet attack strength and it was several times higher than what the game had said.

Originally posted by Mist:
Thanx, for all today answers Ricky! I 've looked at the manual before posting. It says that tank strength is reduced to 1/3 and infantry strength is halved. As I understand it, it means that only part of troops shows up in combat. But I had examples when 300 German squads hold position against 250 Soviet squads supported by hundreds of tanks. I 've calculated Soviet attack strength and it was several times higher than what the game had said.

Without seeing the actual combat it is hard telling, but the combat ratio is calculated based on post fire strengths, meaning artillery bombardments, AT fire, bombing by planes, etc all take place. This reduces both the actual strength of the units and reduces readiness on top of the losses, resulting in fewer men/AFVs/etc showing up for the final combat which is what the odds are based on. I don't know if your strengths are full strength, or based on the experience/readiness reductions, or even at the final combat stage, which is why it is hard to analyze. Also, I am fairly sure there are random changes to the strength due to readiness changes - I have seen the same combat result in wide variations in odds when restarting and running the same saved game right before combat.

Anyway, to summarize, I could see 300 German squads holding off 250 Soviet squads plus 400 tanks, if they have higher readiness/experience and any kind of entrenchment, in part due to the river. Either way I don't think it is bug, but if you have a specific save game right before a combat that shows something, please send it to me to take a look at.

Thanks Mist.

Sorry, I did not save before that combat. But if I recall correctly, my unit had entrenchment 3+. So, that could be ent. level which affected combat odds in this strange way. It looked like attacker's strength was divided by the ent. level and odds were calculated very low. It happened several times with me, and I decided to ask here.

To All

Yes rivers are a problem but you can defeat this problem. How? Multiple air interdiction + staggered attacks on the hex(s) in question.
Iv'e done it in a '42 PBEM game SE of Voronezh (only three hexes so far) and the final outcome is in question but i'm over the river. Small steps lead to bigger options.

Nick

PS The sovies must sacrifice large portions of their air power to do this, Be willing.

About the river problem, I've some question for you.
The river covers that which in the wargames is called a hexside, then I think: if between hexes A and B there is a river, the effect on the attack is applied to both sides. But I've seen a strange thing: if you move the cursor over hex ("dot") 43,13 the computer tells you that it is a "river", if you move over 42,13 (on the other side of the river) it's "clear". Both seem "clear" to see them.
What does it mean? The effect of the river is applied to the hex independently from the direction of the attack (in this case, hex 43,13 don't benefit al all of the river)? Or it's only a label without real effect? The dots that already have other terrains (swamp, city, rail...) do not use the bonus of the river?
I've done some test, but the results are uncertain.
Furthemore, what effect have the terrain "bridge" in hex 44,6? In WIR it's not possible to bomb bridges...
Thanks you for any answer!

Originally posted by Fabio:
About the river problem, I've some question for you.
The river covers that which in the wargames is called a hexside

If you look real close you should be able to see that the river is running along the edge of the squares, not separate from the square by being "between" squares. The river is part of the square. It all depends on how the map maker used the different river squares to form a river. In some places both sides are river squares as in 30,17 and 31,17. In some places both sides are clear as in 50,3 and 51,4. These last locations may be considered a map bug, I don't know.

As long as one of the squares, the one the attacker is coming from or the target square, is a river square then it appears the attacker suffers the river penalty. You can see this at 30,30 and 31,30. Using Campaign '41, have the panzer corps attack 31,30. The sharply reduced tank numbers show the river penalty is being applied. Now have that Soviet corps in Brest-Litovsk take the hex the Panzer division just left. Now have the Panzer division attack back across the river to take the square it originally came from. Again, you see the sharply reduced tank numbers, so the river penalty was again applied in the opposite direction.

Furthemore, what effect have the terrain "bridge"?

Its treated as clear. WiR never allowed you to bomb bridges like in "Western Front", the "bridge" squares may actually be useless, and could be left out. They were going to originally allow bridge bombing but at some point decided not to implement it, yet the map had already been made with those bridge squares in it.

Thanks you for the answer!
It has made me clear some strange results I've had playing the game.

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn
Its treated as clear.

As someone who is still reacquainting himself with various nuances of the game after a very long absence, I may be wrong at stating the following:- the game does not treat the bridge hex as clear. Indeed, the attacker's strength is reduced as if it is attacking across a river.

Could someone please verify my observation?

You are correct. As far as I know, the only thing bridges do is trace a rail line through the hexside, and that is it.

RickyB, thank you for the clarification.

At the same time, I would presume that the bridge hex would be treated as clear during snow and blizzards. Am I not correct?