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After going thru the OoB there are indeed duplicates of some German Panzer Divisions.

8th Panzer: In both 3rd Pz Korp & 11th SS Korp

14th Panzer: In both 4th Korp & 57th Pz Korp

Is it possible to edit the OoB in the premade scenarios?

Steve

ORIGINAL: RooseBolton


After going thru the OoB there are indeed duplicates of some German Panzer Divisions.

8th Panzer: In both 3rd Pz Korp & 11th SS Korp

14th Panzer: In both 4th Korp & 57th Pz Korp

Is it possible to edit the OoB in the premade scenarios?

Steve

..yup, but better to contact the author

Looking at the OOB does not tell you the time or place where units are deployed.

I’ll make a guess that the Panzer Divisions are initially assigned to one Corps, are withdrawn for refit, and reassigned to different Corps. Check the equipment in both divisions and see if one has a later equipment TO&E than the other. Also, open the scenario in the editor, go to the Axis deployment screen and see the turn and event used to deploy the divisions. Would wager that these duplicate divisions are not deployed at the same time.

Regards, RhinoBones

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
Would wager that these duplicate divisions are not deployed at the same time.

Nope. I checked the scenario (version 3) and 8. Panzer is on the map in two places at the same time; with III Panzerkorps at 49,51, and with XI SS Corps at 34,47. Even more exciting, the two versions of the division have two different TO&Es.

For the record, on 22nd June 1944, 8. Panzer Division was apparently part of III Panzerkorps. And in case anyone was wondering, 8. SS Division was Florian Geyer, a cavalry division. This was reorganising in Croatia at the time this scenario takes place.

Well, now I'm forced into actually looking at this scenario. I don't see it listed on the most popular sites . . . where is it available?

Regards, RhinoBones

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Well, now I'm forced into actually looking at this scenario. I don't see it listed on the most popular sites . . . where is it available?

Regards, RhinoBones

...errr, it comes with the game [:)]

Then I'll just wait for the postman.

Regards, RhinoBones

In general, Brian Topp (the designer in this case) tends to make scenarios which are quick and fun but not so much on the historical vigour. As Rhinobones well knows, my tastes generally lie elsewhere, but I have a bit of a soft spot for some of Brian's work. You do get some of the feel of the Eastern Front even if the detail leaves a lot to be desired.

Well the detail in these suckers is fairly comparable to (sometimes strangely similar to, even) the professionally-designed board wargames i tend to model these scenarios on.
 
I stated playing wargames in 1975 (S&T subscription) and for me the appeal of TOAW has always been the joy of a computer opponent for some of my favourite games (ie something to play against) versus using TOAW to explore the details of OOBs.
 
But this one sounds like a plain old mistake -- another on the list for eventual revisions! Thanks for flagging it roosebolton

ORIGINAL: briantopp

Well the detail in these suckers is fairly comparable to (sometimes strangely similar to, even) the professionally-designed board wargames i tend to model these scenarios on.

Oh, no doubt. The nature of TOAW means that one can't help but give more detail than in the old manual games.

For me the big (initial) attraction with TOAW 1 was the ability to play FiTE as I used to play Europa series of board games but with NO local opponents and NO space for the maps to sit for months on end it was always going to be a dead horse. Then TOAW came along and despite it's deficiencies in replecating(?) Operation Barbarossa I was hooked, TOAW 1-> TOAW 2 -> ACOW-> TOAW 3!
ANS when my wife lets me I will start pbem play again.
 
regards
Peter

Yep me too. I loved Fire In the East/Scorched Earth and had it set up in my basement for years -- played through it solitaire four or five times. THe "Operation Barbarossa" scenario I've worked on is a hex-by-hex, counter-by-counter port of that game. It's tricky to get to work for sure.