Matrix Games Forums

Hi!

Sure would like to see naval units reconstitute.

Any chance?

Ray (alias Lava)

They do. What specific problem are you seeing, Ray?

Yeah, naval units definitely reconstitute. They just tend to do it in really obscure places.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Yeah, naval units definitely reconstitute. They just tend to do it in really obscure places.

Yeah like in deep water lakes or border/land locked sea hexes! [:D]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

They do. What specific problem are you seeing, Ray?

Yes, I remember with COW ships reconstituting in all kinds of places, but right now I'm not seeing any fleet reconstitution. Maybe I'm not watching close enough.

I'll get back to you.

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: Lava

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

They do. What specific problem are you seeing, Ray?

Yes, I remember with COW ships reconstituting in all kinds of places, but right now I'm not seeing any fleet reconstitution. Maybe I'm not watching close enough.

I'll get back to you.

Ray (alias Lava)

Let me know. I'm pretty sure that I worked on it a while ago to stop it reconstituting in some of the stranger places. I'm pretty sure it was working after I was done.

Ralph

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
Let me know. I'm pretty sure that I worked on it a while ago to stop it reconstituting in some of the stranger places. I'm pretty sure it was working after I was done.

Ralph

Ralph,

Wouldn't it be easier for naval units to reconstitute in a "proper place" by allowing the editor to place the units in anchorage hexes?

Ray (alias Lava)

Hi!

Okay in the scenario I'm designing, my first fleet was destroyed early on.. Turn 10ish. It is now turn 90, and he has not reconstituted.

I have plenty of ships to make up a new fleet, and I checked my OOB to make sure he wasn't somewhere.

He wasn't.

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: Lava
Okay in the scenario I'm designing, my first fleet was destroyed early on.. Turn 10ish. It is now turn 90, and he has not reconstituted.

I have plenty of ships to make up a new fleet, and I checked my OOB to make sure he wasn't somewhere.

He wasn't.

What is the setting for the unit, when viewed in the scenario editor, using the menu item
Edit>Replacements>Unit Replacements Priorities? Is it set to Yes, No, or Fixed (x,y)?

If Fixed (x,y), where is Obj 1 for the formation the unit is in?

How many x/y items are on line one, of the unit's assigned equipment? If y<3, the unit won't reconstitute.

How many replacements are available in the inventory for the unit's line one equipment? If less than .66 of y, the unit won't reconstitute.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
If Fixed (x,y), where is Obj 1 for the formation the unit is in?

Ah!

Objective 1 is on land (an anchorage). That's probably the reason.

EDIT and OOPS: When I checked the replacement priorities they were also on no reconstitution.

Thanks!

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: Lava

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
If Fixed (x,y), where is Obj 1 for the formation the unit is in?

Objective 1 is on land (an anchorage). That's probably the reason.

Possibly, but check out the other things, too. I'd hate to see you go and change a lot on the scenario, and not have it fix the problem.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Possibly, but check out the other things, too. I'd hate to see you go and change a lot on the scenario, and not have it fix the problem.

Yep.. did that.. they are on no reconstitution with objectives set on anchorages. Changed all that, so hopefully it will work now.

My inexperience shows through again. Never messed with priorities before, but now I see it's importance.

Thanks again.

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: Lava
... they are on no reconstitution with objectives set on anchorages. Changed all that, so hopefully it will work now.

Naval units will generally still reconstitute (all other things fixed) with Obj 1 set on a land hex, but if the land hex is far inland, there can be some strange occurrences - like the unit reconstituting in the middle of lakes, or odd spots around the map, far away from any sensible location.

Thanks J-Man,

I'll be testing some more, so we'll see if anything weird happens.

I'm not trying to do anything weird or dramatic, I just want them to reconstitute so I can get my scenario out the door. If things get out of hand, I'll just turn off the reconstitution and force the player to be careful with the use of his naval forces (which is not a bad idea in and off itself.. so I'm thinking about it).

Cheers,

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM


How many replacements are available in the inventory for the unit's line one equipment? If less than .66 of y, the unit won't reconstitute.

Does this mean that you need to have losses from other naval units to reconstitue a naval unit? This seems to be a bit odd...
I can understand other types of equipment being reused after repair.

ORIGINAL: Erik Nygaard

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM


How many replacements are available in the inventory for the unit's line one equipment? If less than .66 of y, the unit won't reconstitute.

Does this mean that you need to have losses from other naval units to reconstitue a naval unit? This seems to be a bit odd...
I can understand other types of equipment being reused after repair.

That's not the only way for on hand inventory to be available, but it is one way. You can also have replacements scheduled for those pieces of equipment. Read General Staff's article on Replacements and Reconstitution, over at TDG, to understand better how the engine works in this respect.

Keep in mind that for naval (and air) units, when losses are taken the proportion of permanent losses is (100 - unit proficiency). The other disabled are sent to the on hand inventory pool. This represents damaged ships (and air frames) that will be able to join the battle at a later date, after being repaired. If you have a unit that has evaporated, and enough on hand inventory to fill 2/3 of the first line of equipment's assigned level, then it is eligible for reconstitution. If the assigned level of that line of equipment is less than 3, then the engine doesn't allow for reconstitution, because it won't be able to calculate that 2/3 number necessary for the reconstitution eligibility.

Hi!

I know this probably sounds weird...

But it seems one can also use this function to make sure that ground units don't reappear on the battlefield. The "withdraw army" event can be somewhat quirky, and I was thinking for small nations, this ability to stop reconstitution could be a good backup to the withdrawal event.

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

This represents damaged ships (and air frames) that will be able to join the battle at a later date, after being repaired.

In most scenarios, in the case of ships its not even damage. Significantly damaged ships would be out of action for the entire length of the scenario. More likely the ship has just broken off from the main group, or has had some kind of mechanical problem which can be fixed in the space of days or even hours.

ORIGINAL: Lava

But it seems one can also use this function to make sure that ground units don't reappear on the battlefield. The "withdraw army" event can be somewhat quirky, and I was thinking for small nations, this ability to stop reconstitution could be a good backup to the withdrawal event.

Hm. If one had an army which used a unique equipment type as the first item in the TO&Es of its units, you could have a unit arrive with 0/99999 of that item and very high replacement priority. That would reduce the rate of reconstitution and serve to make any units which did reconstitute less useful.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Lava

But it seems one can also use this function to make sure that ground units don't reappear on the battlefield. The "withdraw army" event can be somewhat quirky, and I was thinking for small nations, this ability to stop reconstitution could be a good backup to the withdrawal event.

Hm. If one had an army which used a unique equipment type as the first item in the TO&Es of its units, you could have a unit arrive with 0/99999 of that item and very high replacement priority. That would reduce the rate of reconstitution and serve to make any units which did reconstitute less useful.

The code is kind of quirky in this respect, as what becomes line one's equipment after all is said and done is dependent on some arcane mix of relative numbers, and unit icons. I'm not sure of what the exact algorithm is, but it will shift around as you are monkeying with the build out of the unit.