Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2001 1:57 pm**

What's your favorite German unit? And why? I don't mean the one with the best combat-record or number of engagements, just which one you "like" the best?

I would have to say the Hermann Göring Panzer Division.Especially its panzer regiment. The tankers of that unit wore both the death scull of the panzer units AND the Luftwaffe eagle on their uniforms, the only unit in existance with that combination.

Then again, I'm quite "fond" of the 5th SS-Panzerdivision Wiking. Cool name, made an extremely good account of itself on the eastern front and so on.

Regards, Rundstedt

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:41 pm**

Coming from Bavaria, I like the Gebirgsdivisions best. Additionally my grandfather was in the 7th GebirgsDiv (not included in Wir), what gives me a bias towards this special forces.
My other favourite unit is the 7th PzDiv, in which my other granddad saw combat in Poland, France and Russia.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:54 pm**

What? Did you have two grandfathers?

Regards, Rundstedt

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Rundstedt ]

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2001 5:18 pm**

Hi!

10th panzer division. The first wargame I liked very much as 14 year old was R.T. Smith's Vulcan. And this was my favorite unit in the game.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2001 5:57 pm**

Easy. Totenkopf SS. Snappy black uniforms and with a name like "Death's Head", it just screams war!

Originally posted by Rundstedt:
What's your favorite German unit? And why? I don't mean the one with the best combat-record or number of engagements, just which one you "like" the best?

I would have to say the Hermann Göring Panzer Division.Especially its panzer regiment. The tankers of that unit wore both the death scull of the panzer units AND the Luftwaffe eagle on their uniforms, the only unit in existance with that combination.

Then again, I'm quite "fond" of the 5th SS-Panzerdivision Wiking. Cool name, made an extremely good account of itself on the eastern front and so on.

Regards, Rundstedt

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2001 3:59 am**

Ok, I'm stretching this a bit, but I'll choose Panzergruppe 2 on the eve of Barbarossa. Some of the most famous Heer and SS combat units of the entire war belonged to this organization, which was commanded by my favorite German general, Heinz Guderian. The organizational details are well known, but both the elite "Grossdeutschland" Infantry Regiment and the SS "Das Reich" Division were under "Schnelle Heinz"'s command at this time, as well as the "diving" tanks under 3rd and 18th Panzer Divisions. The last Heer cavalry division was under PG 2, also. The vehicles with their white "G" markings identified the units of PG 2 indelibly with Guderian himself, and the spearhead of the last great blitzkrieg. I would also note that Guderian's unit maintained a pretty clean record as far as atrocities were concerned, the presence of an SS unit notwithstanding, but that may be open to question. He did NOT forward the infamous "Commissar Order" to the units under his command. Side note: the 3rd Pz Div's 5th Pz Rgt was detached and sent to North Africa to become part of Rommel's Afrika Korps. This is a tenuous connection, but there is a connection between Rommel and Guderian in the units they commanded. Another bit of Heer trivia.

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: KG Erwin ]

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:51 am**

Hey Rundstedt, you don´t? :O

Doesn´t your mother have a father or your dad?

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2001 2:04 pm**

No, I just didn't think in English for a second....

Regards, Rundstedt

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2001 11:58 pm**

Originally posted by Don Shafer:
Easy. Totenkopf SS. Snappy black uniforms and with a name like "Death's Head", it just screams war!

SS units, uniforms and ensignias are NOT cool. It is also, in my opinion, extremely uncool (to say the least) to name one of the most atrocitous creations in human history as a favourite.

And before someone says it; No, I do not believe you can discuss SS with only military qualities and perspectives in mind.

Rgds,
Magnus

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2001 1:29 am**

Oooooo.... You're messing with the playtesters.

Regards, Rundstedt

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:56 am**

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson:

SS units, uniforms and ensignias are NOT cool. It is also, in my opinion, extremely uncool (to say the least) to name one of the most atrocitous creations in human history as a favourite.

Can we please stop this before yet another argument about the SS gets started again?

Yes, they were evil, yes, they did horrible things, but some of their military units were in fact very good. When you start talking about the best German units in WWII, it is *inevitable* that some SS units will come up in the conversation.

I can assure you that Don is not a closet Nazi, and I'm sure Rundstet didn't start this thread with the intention of talking about the SS.

No, I do not believe you can discuss SS with only military qualities and perspectives in mind.

Your belief is noted, and I agree with you mostly, as my opinion is that most (but not all) SS units were overrated, and part of their prowess had to do with them getting the best pick of equipment.

Now that everyone knows our opinion, let those who disagree with us have their conversation about the best units of the German Army. Stay cool....

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:51 am**

Originally posted by Rundstedt:

I would have to say the Hermann Göring Panzer Division.Especially its panzer regiment. The tankers of that unit wore both the death scull of the panzer units AND the Luftwaffe eagle on their uniforms, the only unit in existance with that combination.
Regards, Rundstedt

Yes, the appearance is quite impressive, but the name! Hermann Göring is surly nothing to be proud of, even in WWII most Germans were not too thrilled about him. The "ugly nazi" if there ever was one (and one of the most stupid ones at that). Regarding just the name, PzDiv H.G. is quite the opposite of "Wiking".
BTW: In the early days of the war, Göring promised that "if any enemy plane would ever appear over Germany, you can call me Meier" (the most frequent German name, like Smith or Jones). You can guess how he was called soon afterwards (at least when Gestapo wasn´t listening...)

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2001 1:17 pm**

Yeah, yeah, Göring was an s.o.b. but I still "like" that unit.

And Ed, you're right, it wasn't my intention to start a discussion about the SS in general. I also think they had some "cool" units, BUT I don't like what they stood for.

Regards, Rundstedt

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2001 5:20 pm**

I agree wholeheartly with you on all points in reference to SS units. All atrocities committed aside, though, it would have to strike some level of fear in anyone facing a unit with the name of "Death's Head". The original question was "What was you're favorite German Unit...Which one do you like best". I've always had a soft spot in my heart for any army that can gain some kind of psychological advantage over it's opponent, you know, kind of like the great battle helms that our Viking forefathers used to wear.

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson:

SS units, uniforms and ensignias are NOT cool. It is also, in my opinion, extremely uncool (to say the least) to name one of the most atrocitous creations in human history as a favourite.

And before someone says it; No, I do not believe you can discuss SS with only military qualities and perspectives in mind.

Rgds,
Magnus

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2001 7:11 pm**

Originally posted by Don Shafer:
I agree wholeheartly with you on all points in reference to SS units. All atrocities committed aside, though, it would have to strike some level of fear in anyone facing a unit with the name of "Death's Head". The original question was "What was you're favorite German Unit...Which one do you like best". I've always had a soft spot in my heart for any army that can gain some kind of psychological advantage over it's opponent, you know, kind of like the great battle helms that our Viking forefathers used to wear.

Yep, I can buy that. I get the feeling that this has been a topic here before

. I am glad that it is so, and I will gladly drop it from here. For the record I just want to say that I did not believe that anyone here is a 'closet nazi'. You all seem to be too intelligent for that. It's just that I simply cannot leave some things unsaid...

/Magnus

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2001 3:02 am**

bah... SS thingy...

SS Totenkopf actually was the weakest part of the Waffen SS

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2001 5:34 am**

But that had nothing to do with the original question. The question was "Which unit do you like the best?"

Originally posted by SoleSurvivor:
bah... SS thingy...

SS Totenkopf actually was the weakest part of the Waffen SS

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2001 12:54 pm**

Yup, more or less the opposite... Best Unit? erm do you count JG1?

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2001 2:03 pm**

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoleSurvivor:

SS Totenkopf actually was the weakest part of the Waffen SS

I thought the four original Waffen SS formations (LAH, Totenkopf, Das Reich and Wiking) were the best, and that the later batch, especially those formed in 1943-45 were much worse. Curious to know why you think Totenkopf was the weakest. Certainly not in fighting ability??

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2001 7:34 pm**

Originally posted by Chimera:

Originally posted by SoleSurvivor:

SS Totenkopf actually was the weakest part of the Waffen SS

I thought the four original Waffen SS formations (LAH, Totenkopf, Das Reich and Wiking) were the best,

You forgot "Nord" division.

and that the later batch, especially those formed in 1943-45 were much worse. Curious to know why you think Totenkopf was the weakest. Certainly not in fighting ability??

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