Matrix Games Forums

I know there's been a major debate around infantry divs in pz corps lately, but I need one more clarification.
Why is it possible to move (alt-v) an infantry unit 5 hexes, but the plotting movement is limited to two? I am aware of that moving a unit 5 hexes without rail eats readiness, but leaving that aside, it seems possible to march 5 hexes in one aspect, but not in another.
Is it a discrepancy or is there a factor unknown to me that prohibits infantry to travel 5 hexes on enemy territory?

/MO

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson:
I know there's been a major debate around infantry divs in pz corps lately, but I need one more clarification.
Why is it possible to move (alt-v) an infantry unit 5 hexes, but the plotting movement is limited to two? I am aware of that moving a unit 5 hexes without rail eats readiness, but leaving that aside, it seems possible to march 5 hexes in one aspect, but not in another.
Is it a discrepancy or is there a factor unknown to me that prohibits infantry to travel 5 hexes on enemy territory?

/MO

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Plotting can be made through both friendly and enemy controlled territory. March movement can only happen in friendly territory, so it makes sense that it can cover a longer distance as there is no risk of combat (or very limited). That is the key to the infantry in Pz Korps plotting 5 - can they keep up and contribute something or not on the 5th plot?

From a reality stand point, the difference is between a division that is marching down a road at best speed and a deployed division that is leap frogging, spread out, coordinating movement to maintain fire support, etc., etc., etc. So a big difference in movement is realistic in those extremes. A middle ground fast advance movement would be appropriate but what we have gets the job done, I suppose.

Originally posted by BrickReid:
From a reality stand point, the difference is between a division that is marching down a road at best speed and a deployed division that is leap frogging, spread out, coordinating movement to maintain fire support, etc., etc., etc. So a big difference in movement is realistic in those extremes. A middle ground fast advance movement would be appropriate but what we have gets the job done, I suppose.

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Ok, but I am still not sure that this should be accounted for in a game like WiR where you do business on corps level. Furthermore, if you look at the german advances, particularily the drive towards Leningrad in 1941, the infantry troops covered amazing distances. I'll have to check the numbers, but I think that thet did 90 miles in three days and came out fighting. That's like 4,5 hexes in half a week...

/Magnus

I agree with you Magnus. The Korps-level works unrealistic in many ways, this is certainly one.

I dare say with any game or simulation the LAW of averages apply. I understand what you are saying, but I doubt other units such rapid movements over the entire course of a summer while fighting a bitter enemy who on occasion fought until death.

If German Inf units could move in such a rapid fashion in this game then GOD help the Soviets and vice-versa.

Mighty Muzrub adding his two cents

Originally posted by Muzrub:
I dare say with any game or simulation the LAW of averages apply. I understand what you are saying, but I doubt other units such rapid movements over the entire course of a summer while fighting a bitter enemy who on occasion fought until death.

If German Inf units could move in such a rapid fashion in this game then GOD help the Soviets and vice-versa.

Mighty Muzrub adding his two cents

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Yup, you are correct. We have a quite balanced game today. I am keeping the discussion alive just to see if we can find a way to implement a more moveable infantry and still keep the game balanced.
It is, I have noticed, very dangerous to use the words 'historically correct' in this forum (it inevitably leads to heated arguments not related to original topic), but I still cannot let go of the fact that for instance the drive to Leningrad was an infantry based one, with the panzers as support. The Totenkopf unit fx was used for mopping up, and that's totally opposite from what the game encourages you to do (ie in the game you drive forward with pz and mop up with inf).

/MO

Maybe we could have a forced march over 3 hexs, but with the trade off would be a 20% loss in readiness or more in attack. Thus greater casualties for tired soldiers.

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson:


Ok, but I am still not sure that this should be accounted for in a game like WiR where you do business on corps level. Furthermore, if you look at the german advances, particularily the drive towards Leningrad in 1941, the infantry troops covered amazing distances. I'll have to check the numbers, but I think that thet did 90 miles in three days and came out fighting. That's like 4,5 hexes in half a week...

/Magnus

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I think I addressed this with the "middle ground fast advance" comment. The game offers only full march or full scale assault, which is very limited in comparison to what infantry is really capable of. However, the game works just fine without this option, "I suppose". Anyways, I agree with you as to the lacking nature of the game's movement options.

[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: BrickReid ]</p>