Matrix Games Forums

Hi Folks,

I purchased WITP what must be two years ago now, mainly to play the grand campaign. As many will probably remember there were lots of bugs in it back in those days and after a few frustrating starts with units disappearing among other problems I ended up shelving it for a later time.

Whilst I must say that I wasnt happy with the condition this game was released in, I am glad to see that developers are continuing their efforts to get all of the problems sorted out, which brings me to my question. In people opinion, how does the 41-45 campaign play these days? Are there still problems with it and I need to wait just a little longer, or is it finally to a stage where one can comfortably play the entire war?

Thanks for the input!

Ron Saueracker in 3.... 2..... 1..... [:D]

Patch 1.8 was a big step forward, squashing lots of bugs, but some are still left - the out-of-sync-bug when strafing ships comes to mind. In my opinion the game is definitely playable. Another patch is is forthcoming, which should solve even more problems.

Besides those bugs, some heatedly debated balancing issues and code problems (both not necessarily "bugs") remain, like the deadliness of a large CAP (uber-CAP) or the land combat system altogether. Some mods try to rectify those "issues", you might want to have a look at them in the scenario section. CHS and RHS for instance offer a better map and OoB, too.

VSWG, thanks for the info!

Is there any ETA on the next patch out of interest, it sounds like one more would squash some of the last remaining major issues? Ive had a look at the scenarios you mention and they do look very interesting, thanks. Im not sure where to start when it comes to installing them, but Ive posted in the scenario forum for some help. Thanks!

I must be honest.  My first thought upon reading the subject line was   (And as for Ron, he had better still be sleeping it off!)
 
But I took a deep breath, so you'll get a serious response instead.  [:'(]  As a game, it is playable now.  Most the major game killers appear to have been squashed or suppressed, so we're down to just the kind of bugs you would normally expect from an initial release.  Don and Joe are working hard to deal with those.  (Which means we're beginning to see the problems with the design and some of the developers' assumptions, but that's another subject.)  They have not said when the next patch will be released but if I had to guess I'd say probably four to six weeks.  I wouldn't bet any money on that though.
 
 

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer
Is there any ETA on the next patch out of interest, it sounds like one more would squash some of the last remaining major issues?

Yes: when it's done! [;)]

Seriously, if've seen some mods/devs mentioning that several bugs are being addressed right now, but no ETA yet.

Ive had a look at the scenarios you mention and they do look very interesting, thanks. Im not sure where to start when it comes to installing them, but Ive posted in the scenario forum for some help. Thanks!

Andrew Brown has an installation guide for CHS on his site:
http://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/CHS_doc ... stall.html

I can highly recommend his mod, especially the extended map, which includes Aden and Panama:
http://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/map_mod.html

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I must be honest.  My first thought upon reading the subject line was   (And as for Ron, he had better still be sleeping it off!)

Um, okay, I take it I have I stepped into some sort of mine field here?[X(]

Anyways, thanks for the info guys, Im going to look into some of these mods. Are they anymore likely to be buggy from peoples experience out of interest?

Mike

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I must be honest.  My first thought upon reading the subject line was   (And as for Ron, he had better still be sleeping it off!)

Um, okay, I take it I have I stepped into some sort of mine field here?[X(]

Anyways, thanks for the info guys, Im going to look into some of these mods. Are they anymore likely to be buggy from peoples experience out of interest?

Mike

Ron is like me in that he is disappointed with the quality control and some aspects of the game's design. Plus a bit over twelve hours ago as I type this he made several posts while seriously drunk. Not your problem, don't worry about it you didn't do anything wrong.


As for the mods, the way the program was designed and written limits the players' ability to change anything. Even things as simple as adding or removing from the OOB can cause serious problems because some things that no one has hard-coded that way for ten years are hard-coded here and the databases are "eccentric". Basically, WiTP is just the latest release of the same code that has been played with and added to for twenty years; and it shows.

ORIGINAL: dtravel
As for the mods, the way the program was designed and written limits the players' ability to change anything. Even things as simple as adding or removing from the OOB can cause serious problems because some things that no one has hard-coded that way for ten years are hard-coded here and the databases are "eccentric". Basically, WiTP is just the latest release of the same code that has been played with and added to for twenty years; and it shows.

Interesting, so this code is based on the old Pacific War game in part? Thank for the info I agree with what you say, it shows and for the price the game shipped for I was hoping for more myself. This game and theatre in general has a lot of potential, at times I feel like I am fighting against the bugs, odd design descisions and interface more so than my oponent. At least thats how I used to feel, Im hoping things may be improved now at least somewhat.

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

Interesting, so this code is based on the old Pacific War game in part? Thank for the info I agree with what you say, it shows and for the price the game shipped for I was hoping for more myself. This game and theatre in general has a lot of potential, at times I feel like I am fighting against the bugs, odd design descisions and interface more so than my oponent. At least thats how I used to feel, Im hoping things may be improved now at least somewhat.

The bugs have been greatly reduced, the basic design and interface haven't changed since it was released. I think it's unrealistic to expect major design/interface changes, but not bug fixes. Of course Joe/Don may surprise me, but I think WitP now is probably close to being as good as it'll get.

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

The bugs have been greatly reduced, the basic design and interface haven't changed since it was released. I think it's unrealistic to expect major design/interface changes, but not bug fixes. Of course Joe/Don may surprise me, but I think WitP now is probably close to being as good as it'll get.

Oh I do agree with regards to not expecting any huge changes. I got what I expected and paid for with regards to interface and game design, it was the bugs that were the added bonus that I didnt want and it looks like now, two years later, we are getting close to a final product. Overall I think the game system works quite well, I was merely dreaming about what might be if someone ever designs a game like this from scratch [8D]

Mike

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer
Overall I think the game system works quite well, I was merely dreaming about what might be if someone ever designs a game like this from scratch [8D]

Mike

We all do, we all do. That's why there is so much discussion about things like the Zero Bonus and how to make ground combat work and limiting torpedoes. We're all getting ready for the next game. [;)]

Hi, WITP does not use code from Pac War.  Both have the same designer.  (I think Mike Wood wrote the code for WITP)  They did not start with Pac War and write WITP code ontop of it. They began with Uncommon Valour and wrote WITP code on top of that.  WITP is the child of Uncommon Valour not Pac War.
I don't expect these guys to ever write a game this scale again.

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, WITP does not use code from Pac War.  Both have the same designer.  (I think Mike Wood wrote the code for WITP)  They did not start with Pac War and write WITP code ontop of it. They began with Uncommon Valour and wrote WITP code on top of that.  WITP is the child of Uncommon Valour not Pac War.
I don't expect these guys to ever write a game this scale again.

So the obvious follow-up question would be did they write UV code on top of PW code?

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

The bugs have been greatly reduced, the basic design and interface haven't changed since it was released. I think it's unrealistic to expect major design/interface changes, but not bug fixes. Of course Joe/Don may surprise me, but I think WitP now is probably close to being as good as it'll get.

Good to see you back... [:D]

Any chance of seeing new version of your great utility (containing my vectors)? [8D]


Leo "Apollo11"

The game was playable when it first came out. It is far more playable now. This game is played mainly by grognards and they {we} have a very strong desire for attension to detail and very little tolerance of historically incorrect OOBs or a code that might not deliver historical results even though requiring such is an unreasonable expectation.

Yes, a few bugs remain. But this game still delivers the best value for the money and is a lot of fun to play. I imagine it will be a lot of fun to play till I get a computer that is too advanced to run it. The game may not be a perfect sim of the war in the pacific, but it certainly approaches perfection closer than any other game of the same scope and era.

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

The game was playable when it first came out. It is far more playable now. This game is played mainly by grognards and they {we} have a very strong desire for attension to detail and very little tolerance of historically incorrect OOBs or a code that might not deliver historical results even though requiring such is an unreasonable expectation.

Yes, a few bugs remain. But this game still delivers the best value for the money and is a lot of fun to play. I imagine it will be a lot of fun to play till I get a computer that is too advanced to run it. The game may not be a perfect sim of the war in the pacific, but it certainly approaches perfection closer than any other game of the same scope and era.

correct

What he said...

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

The game was playable when it first came out. It is far more playable now. This game is played mainly by grognards and they {we} have a very strong desire for attension to detail and very little tolerance of historically incorrect OOBs or a code that might not deliver historical results even though requiring such is an unreasonable expectation.

Yes, a few bugs remain. But this game still delivers the best value for the money and is a lot of fun to play. I imagine it will be a lot of fun to play till I get a computer that is too advanced to run it. The game may not be a perfect sim of the war in the pacific, but it certainly approaches perfection closer than any other game of the same scope and era.

Well said

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

The game was playable when it first came out. It is far more playable now. This game is played mainly by grognards and they {we} have a very strong desire for attension to detail and very little tolerance of historically incorrect OOBs or a code that might not deliver historical results even though requiring such is an unreasonable expectation.

I dont think that expecting entire units or 100's of aircraft not to dissappear into thin air is an unreasonable expectation or anything to do with historical accuracy myself. I tried several times to play the full campaign after the game was relased, both against the AI and PBEM, and I continuiously ran into problems. Maybe I was just unlucky but in my opinion the 41-45 campaign was just too long for the engine to handle at that point.

If you intend to wait for a completely bug-free game, then you'll never play WitP. Ever.