Matrix Games Forums

Hello,

I've got some questions concerning production, upgrading equipment, reorganisation, etc. There are lots of things I don't understand here. So would you please help me?

1. I know that there are some obligatory changes in unit organisation/upgrading that the computer performs. They're descibed in editwir.txt, which is in the game folder after installing the game, e.g "First week of January '42: Corps in slots 100-186 which are of types 25 (corps) and 18 (mech corps) turn to type 23 (army) and are renumbered...etc"
I also know of another restriction - tiger tanks can't be put in divisional batallions. They must go into special independent batallions - I think I read it somewhere.
Are there any other restrictions of this type within the game?

2. Another problem I'm going to discuss is about upgarding. I'm going to discuss it with the help of PzKpfw IIf tank, but it's a general problem and it refers to all types of tank and aircraft:
I used WirAssistant and I checked the pools option, and it says there that PzKpfw IIfs automatically upgrade to PzKpfw IVgs from 9.5.42 on. I gather this means that if I leave upgrading and production under computer control, the computer will start changing PzKpfw IIfs into PzKpwf IVgs on that day, not before it. Yet, when I have a look at a batallion screen in one of my divisional batallions that have PzKpwf IIfs and I press the change button, I can upgrade my poor PzKpfw IIfs to many various types of tank: Pz-38(t), Pz-38(t)e, PzKpfw-IIIg, PzKpfw-IIIh, PzKpfw-IVe, and M-13/40. What will happen if I change my PzKpfw IIfs to, say, Pz-38(t)s? Will the computer perform the 9.5.42 change. Will my new upgraded Pz-38(t)s be changed into PzKpfw IVgs from 9.5.42 on? Could someone help me and explain how it all works? What if I didn't want the 9.5.42 change to happen?

Also, does the 9.5.42 change affect production as well? In other words, if there are some factories producing PzKpfw IIfs at the time, will the computer automatically change production to PzKpfw IVgs too?

3. Another problem: there are some PzKpfw IIfs in my pools. I don't want to produce this tank and I change production and chose another tank. Now, no factory is producing PzKpfw II fs. I also change all PzKpfw IIfs in my batallions. No batallion has PzKpfw IIfs now. The question is this: what will happen to the PzKpfw II fs that remained in the pools and haven't been used? Will they just stay there until the end of the game? Will they disappear? Will they be somehow automatically upgraded by the computer?

4. When I press the change button and upgrade, say, 30 PzKpfw II fs to Pz-38(t). What happens to my PzKpfw II fs. Do they return to the pools?

5. Do you upgrade equipment on your own or do you leave it to the computer? Does it make sense to do it on your own? The manual seems to discourage players from doing it, suggesting it's better to leave it to the computer (see IV. Reinforcements, Replacements, & Production, page 44).


HELP!!!

m200

Originally posted by m200:
Hello,

I've got some questions concerning production, upgrading equipment, reorganisation, etc. There are lots of things I don't understand here. So would you please help me?.....................................................

Do you upgrade equipment on your own or do you leave it to the computer? Does it make sense to do it on your own? The manual seems to discourage players from doing it, suggesting it's better to leave it to the computer (see IV. Reinforcements, Replacements, & Production, page 44).


HELP!!!

m200

---

M200

I know little of the auto uprgrade system as i take control of production from day 1 and keep a tight hold on it. So by turn 2 of the '41 campaign all tank production is Pz3H with 2 factories on stg3b and 2 on Pzj1b. After a while there are enough Pz3h beeing produced each turn to upgrade a bn(or two) a turn and the pz2's get changed first with the occasional change of pz4e bn's to keep the pool topped up. All pz bn's in Italy and west get changed to pz2 by the end of '41.
And on into '42 when the pz3j comes on and all (main battle tank)factories change to that.
So for example in one of the PBEM games that im playing now at Nov'42 the Pz forces are 'very' strong compared with historical levels with all pz divs having bn's of 60 + tanks ,mostly pz3h and pz3j but some now pz4h. Also there are still some pz4e and 38te bns and they are usually the ones to get the new pz4h. I skip the pz4g.
Sometimes i notice some uprades do occur but i think it only happens with the tank currently being produced 'en-mass' so i dont worry about it.
Also i pretty much let the computer do the stg/pzj upgrades but i make sure all of them are Marder2 and stug3g by the second half of '42.
There are some major changes on the german side in '43 but as i have not played a game as german from 22june41 up to '43 i have little experience there. ( 2 games running are at Aug and Nov 1942)

I believe if left to it's own devices the programe will do as good a job on production as it does being the AI opponent. (ie:crap)

Yes tanks replaced go back in the pool.
I think a lot of the older types in the pool (pz3e exct) go to making stugs and such but i'm only guessing there.

All the best

Nick

PS. RickyB and Ed know a lot more about the specifics of upgrade than i do. Maybe they will chip in. I personally would like to know if my current 42 games will have the Pz divs change to the organisation seen in the '43 setup( more stug B'ns and less pz bn's, will i have a sudden surplus of tanks? Or do the pz3's get turned into stug3g's?)

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

Originally posted by m200:
Hello,

I've got some questions concerning production, upgrading equipment, reorganisation, etc. There are lots of things I don't understand here. So would you please help me?

1. I know that there are some obligatory changes in unit organisation/upgrading that the computer performs. They're descibed in editwir.txt, which is in the game folder after installing the game, e.g "First week of January '42: Corps in slots 100-186 which are of types 25 (corps) and 18 (mech corps) turn to type 23 (army) and are renumbered...etc"
I also know of another restriction - tiger tanks can't be put in divisional batallions. They must go into special independent batallions - I think I read it somewhere.
Are there any other restrictions of this type within the game?

---

The tank types and where they go are not a specific restriction, but is based on the current tank types in the unit. Basically, medium tanks can't switch to heavy, the same goes for tank destroyers where the "size" cannot be switched. However, I believe that if an upgrade is set in the armor file, it will upgrade to that, so setting PzIIs to upgrade to Tigers may allow the computer upgrade to change the PzII units to Tigers. I don't think human control can do this. Air units, divided between fighter types and bombers, have similar restrictions. Basically whatever you see when you click on Change shows what is allowed under human control.

2. Another problem I'm going to discuss is about upgarding. I'm going to discuss it with the help of PzKpfw IIf tank, but it's a general problem and it refers to all types of tank and aircraft:
I used WirAssistant and I checked the pools option, and it says there that PzKpfw IIfs automatically upgrade to PzKpfw IVgs from 9.5.42 on. I gather this means that if I leave upgrading and production under computer control, the computer will start changing PzKpfw IIfs into PzKpwf IVgs on that day, not before it. Yet, when I have a look at a batallion screen in one of my divisional batallions that have PzKpwf IIfs and I press the change button, I can upgrade my poor PzKpfw IIfs to many various types of tank: Pz-38(t), Pz-38(t)e, PzKpfw-IIIg, PzKpfw-IIIh, PzKpfw-IVe, and M-13/40. What will happen if I change my PzKpfw IIfs to, say, Pz-38(t)s? Will the computer perform the 9.5.42 change. Will my new upgraded Pz-38(t)s be changed into PzKpfw IVgs from 9.5.42 on? Could someone help me and explain how it all works? What if I didn't want the 9.5.42 change to happen?

---

This will depend on the upgrade for the new tank type. The prior tank type does not matter when the computer looks to upgrade, so if you change the type, it is important to know the upgrade path from there. Again, I believe upgrades under computer control can make more changes, depending on the quantities of everything in the pools. In a game right now, I have Soviet Kv units converting per the upgrade path to self propelled guns, but I cannot switch them myself. To prevent automatic upgrades, you need to switch off computer control of this process through Utilities, Fac Control which toggles between computer and human. Yes about the factories switching. And actually, for the units, they only switch as new equipment becomes available, not all on the initial date.

Also, does the 9.5.42 change affect production as well? In other words, if there are some factories producing PzKpfw IIfs at the time, will the computer automatically change production to PzKpfw IVgs too?

3. Another problem: there are some PzKpfw IIfs in my pools. I don't want to produce this tank and I change production and chose another tank. Now, no factory is producing PzKpfw II fs. I also change all PzKpfw IIfs in my batallions. No batallion has PzKpfw IIfs now. The question is this: what will happen to the PzKpfw II fs that remained in the pools and haven't been used? Will they just stay there until the end of the game? Will they disappear? Will they be somehow automatically upgraded by the computer?

---

Some tank types will automatically convert, others will not. If a tank type is set to convert to another type, then any in the pool will convert to that type.

4. When I press the change button and upgrade, say, 30 PzKpfw II fs to Pz-38(t). What happens to my PzKpfw II fs. Do they return to the pools?

---

Yes.

5. Do you upgrade equipment on your own or do you leave it to the computer? Does it make sense to do it on your own? The manual seems to discourage players from doing it, suggesting it's better to leave it to the computer (see IV. Reinforcements, Replacements, & Production, page 44).

---

I do very little changing myself, except for specific situations. For example, the Soviets for some reason, end up with thousands of Su76s no matter what, if the production is not adjusted prior to their appearance. They also have a number of factories for them and do not upgrade, so keeping the factories turning out these is pretty silly, so I will change them usually to something needed more. In my current game I converted them to fighters as I am getting beat up so badly in the air by Me262s. Hasn't helped, but I have like 6000 Su76s anyway.

Originally posted by RickyB:

In my current game I converted them to fighters as I am getting beat up so badly in the air by Me262s. Hasn't helped, but I have like 6000 Su76s anyway.

---

Rick,
do you mean you are able to change production of Su76 (gun)factory to fighter plane ?

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:


M200

I know little of the auto uprgrade system as i take control of production from day 1 and keep a tight hold on it. So by turn 2 of the '41 campaign all tank production is Pz3H with 2 factories on stg3b and 2 on Pzj1b. After a while there are enough Pz3h beeing produced each turn to upgrade a bn(or two) a turn and the pz2's get changed first with the occasional change of pz4e bn's to keep the pool topped up. All pz bn's in Italy and west get changed to pz2 by the end of '41.
And on into '42 when the pz3j comes on and all (main battle tank)factories change to that.
So for example in one of the PBEM games that im playing now at Nov'42 the Pz forces are 'very' strong compared with historical levels with all pz divs having bn's of 60 + tanks ,mostly pz3h and pz3j but some now pz4h. Also there are still some pz4e and 38te bns and they are usually the ones to get the new pz4h. I skip the pz4g.
Sometimes i notice some uprades do occur but i think it only happens with the tank currently being produced 'en-mass' so i dont worry about it.
Also i pretty much let the computer do the stg/pzj upgrades but i make sure all of them are Marder2 and stug3g by the second half of '42.
There are some major changes on the german side in '43 but as i have not played a game as german from 22june41 up to '43 i have little experience there. ( 2 games running are at Aug and Nov 1942)

I believe if left to it's own devices the programe will do as good a job on production as it does being the AI opponent. (ie:crap)

Yes tanks replaced go back in the pool.
I think a lot of the older types in the pool (pz3e exct) go to making stugs and such but i'm only guessing there.

All the best

Nick

PS. RickyB and Ed know a lot more about the specifics of upgrade than i do. Maybe they will chip in. I personally would like to know if my current 42 games will have the Pz divs change to the organisation seen in the '43 setup( more stug B'ns and less pz bn's, will i have a sudden surplus of tanks? Or do the pz3's get turned into stug3g's?)

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]

---

I do almost 100 % the same thing as Loki, and no chance to let Artificial Incompetence play with production and upgrading of my beloved tanks and planes.
AFAIK PzKpfwII when left in the pool will convert to Marders. I dont know about other tanks like Czech 38 etc.

Yes Nick,
you will end up with surplus with tanks after reorganisation. You can avoid this by using Wirhack, but IMHO is not historically allowed.
Maciej

Originally posted by czerpak:


I do almost 100 % the same thing as Loki, and no chance to let Artificial Incompetence play with production and upgrading of my beloved tanks and planes.
AFAIK PzKpfwII when left in the pool will convert to Marders. I dont know about other tanks like Czech 38 etc.

Yes Nick,
you will end up with surplus with tanks after reorganisation. You can avoid this by using Wirhack, but IMHO is not historically allowed.
Maciej

---

Maciej

Thanks for that. I will not be surprised now when it happens. No i would'nt change this as you say for historical reasons.
The 'beloved tanks and planes'.. Good to know i'm not the only one who has to have the panzers and luftwaffe 'just right'.
Is it abnormal to feel a certain 'wrongness' when some of your big FW190 units are under training 80? (for example)

Ricky... thanks for all that info. I also dont change the soviet production (well, tanks anyway) nearly as much as german.
Something about playing the germans makes me go all 'efficient'. I call it the 'Speer complex'

Nick

Originally posted by czerpak:


Rick,
do you mean you are able to change production of Su76 (gun)factory to fighter plane ?

---

It is so easy...
editwir
L
X
FileName with game
F
S - and number for factory (Russian armor - 200-228 in 1941 scenario)
B
200 + Number of plane (for example, La-5FN is 56)
Q
S
X
FileName

Regards,
moi

Originally posted by czerpak:
Rick,
do you mean you are able to change production of Su76 (gun)factory to fighter plane ?

---

No, I guess I was too tired to remember what I had done, which happened a few months ago. I don't remember now what I changed to the Su76 factories to, but it was other AFVs. It was the great majority of my bomber factories that I changed to fighter production, now that I am awake and thinking again. Sorry about the confusion.

Originally posted by moi:


It is so easy...
editwir
L
X
FileName with game
F
S - and number for factory (Russian armor - 200-228 in 1941 scenario)
B
200 + Number of plane (for example, La-5FN is 56)
Q
S
X
FileName

Regards,
moi

---

Thanks Moi,
but I undestood Ricky has done it without editor.
It was a misunderstanding though.

Originally posted by RickyB:

No, I guess I was too tired to remember what I had done, which happened a few months ago. I don't remember now what I changed to the Su76 factories to, but it was other AFVs. It was the great majority of my bomber factories that I changed to fighter production, now that I am awake and thinking again. Sorry about the confusion.

---

Nullo problemo, like the old Alfer used to say.
Just hoped it's something I didnt know about which would allowe me to play even more with production.
Maciej

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:


Is it abnormal to feel a certain 'wrongness' when some of your big FW190 units are under training 80? (for example)


Nick

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No, it is something I call "right attitude" while playing WiR <img src="smile.gif" border="0">