Off to GREECE on Thursday...

[wild_Willie2]

About Thermopylae, I don't wat to be a spoilsport but NOBODY knows where that battle actually took place.  After literally centuries of digging for the battlesite (there must be a HEK of a load of bronze arrowheads in the ground there) it still has not been found.
 
Most historians think that the site has been swallowed by the sea in the last 3000 years (and the site was litterally next to the sea, as the story goes), the sea level has risen quite a lot since that time.

[Dino]

A rhino skeleton should be a dead giveaway...

[Mynok]

[:D] [:D] [:D]

[wild_Willie2]

"We spartans fight next to each other in a phalanx formation" Next scene, all the spandexed spartans individually run into 10 gazillion ninja teenage mutant mutants.   (btw, didn't greek hoplites wear chestplates and used the lance as their primary weapon?)

[Mynok]

No chestplates I don't believe. They used a 12' thrusting spear.

[Elladan]

I'm afraid you can be a little disappointed with Thermopylae. The shoreline has moved and it's no more a narrow passage it was some 2500 years ago. A nice landscape and a monument of Leonidas, that's all. 

[rtrapasso]

That depends who you ask, i suppose. According to West Point Military History Series : Ancient and Medieval Warfare (p3) during this period, the hoplites wore a cuirass covering the chest and back with overlapping metal and leather plates, and a conical pilos helmet. Leg armor was rarely used.

They carried a 30" round shield called an aspis. The offensive weapon throughout this period were the sword and spear - spear 7-8 feet in length with heavy iron point and butt. Sword was a short thrusting weapon, iron, less than 1 meter long. All together it was about 50 pounds of arms and armor.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Big B

Ron, you lucky guy!

Let me also wish you best of luck, and assure you - Oh, how I wish I were going with you!

Greece, the cradle of Western Civilization, has so much to offer. As others have said - Thermopolye, Athens, Sparta, Platea!
(Not to mention Greek wines!)

Make sure you have your copies of Homer, Xenophon, Thucydides, Aeschylus,and Herodtus packed up!

Best of luck old man,
Brian

I just hope Ron's heart can take the Greek women. [X(][&o] [:D]

But if you had to go....

[Feinder]

There's a pretty major Greek settlement near us in town called Tarpon Springs.  It makes for a nice day-trip - it's on the water and there are a few pubs where it's nice to people-watch.  But once I ordered the house special at this little cafe, I was astounded to find that it was actually possible to somehow put every Carb into one dish...
 
A pastry stuffed with spinach and goat-cheese.
Lamb meat-balls served over a noodles (was like stroganoff) with mound of potato salad in the middle.
All served on a bed of rice covering a large piece of flat-bread (sort of like a flat bread-bowl).
 
No kidding.

You say "South Beach" in that town and their skin begins to shrivel and their eye-balls melt.
 
-F-

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

That depends who you ask, i suppose. According to West Point Military History Series : Ancient and Medieval Warfare (p3) during this period, the hoplites wore a cuirass covering the chest and back with overlapping metal and leather plates, and a conical pilos helmet. Leg armor was rarely used.

They carried a 30" round shield called an aspis. The offensive weapon throughout this period were the sword and spear - spear 7-8 feet in length with heavy iron point and butt. Sword was a short thrusting weapon, iron, less than 1 meter long. All together it was about 50 pounds of arms and armor.

Since each man provided his own gear, it is highly unlikely that any except the wealthiest wore scale breast/backplates. Hoplon, spear and a helmet only was by far the most common equipage.

Padded or leather armor was more likely to be worn on the body.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

That depends who you ask, i suppose. According to West Point Military History Series : Ancient and Medieval Warfare (p3) during this period, the hoplites wore a cuirass covering the chest and back with overlapping metal and leather plates, and a conical pilos helmet. Leg armor was rarely used.

They carried a 30" round shield called an aspis. The offensive weapon throughout this period were the sword and spear - spear 7-8 feet in length with heavy iron point and butt. Sword was a short thrusting weapon, iron, less than 1 meter long. All together it was about 50 pounds of arms and armor.

Since each man provided his own gear, it is highly unlikely that any except the wealthiest wore scale breast/backplates. Hoplon, spear and a helmet only was by far the most common equipage.

Padded or leather armor was more likely to be worn on the body.

Might be true for the Athenians, but for the Spartans? They had a system that eliminated wealth, iirc (they even made their coins out of iron so that they would rust away and so you and your family couldn't stay rich). i was under the impression that they were pretty much all around the same wealth and pretty much equipped similarly.

i also remember reading (although maybe i misremembered) that the guys with the armor were the ones that fought in the phalanx - if you didn't have the armor, you became a slinger or skirmisher.

[Ron Saueracker]

I was at a museum in Olympia and much armour was on display. What never fails to surprise me is how much we have evolved in size. I would be hard pressed to get a helmet to fit over my fist, let alone my big noggin.[:)]

In the pursuit of historical accuracy, The 300 should have been cast with midgets.[:D]

[Big B]

The hoplite panoply was pretty much universal to be a member of the phalanx...with the exception of the ekdromoi (the "runners out" tasked with breaking ranks and killing peltasts and other skirmishers).
Since membership in the phalanx was a requirement for full citizenship in most Greek city states, the bronze armor panoply could be expected to be universal. Furthermore, all illustrative existent evidence points to this (which is actually quite numerous) .
(exception - by the 5th century BC or BCE if you like - a composite linen and leather based torso armor had gained popularity for reasons of body movement).
As for the physical size of ancient Greek warriors - I believe they were a surprising 5'6" on average - the same as western men have always been up until the middle 20th century.

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

That depends who you ask, i suppose. According to West Point Military History Series : Ancient and Medieval Warfare (p3) during this period, the hoplites wore a cuirass covering the chest and back with overlapping metal and leather plates, and a conical pilos helmet. Leg armor was rarely used.

They carried a 30" round shield called an aspis. The offensive weapon throughout this period were the sword and spear - spear 7-8 feet in length with heavy iron point and butt. Sword was a short thrusting weapon, iron, less than 1 meter long. All together it was about 50 pounds of arms and armor.

Since each man provided his own gear, it is highly unlikely that any except the wealthiest wore scale breast/backplates. Hoplon, spear and a helmet only was by far the most common equipage.

Padded or leather armor was more likely to be worn on the body.

Might be true for the Athenians, but for the Spartans? They had a system that eliminated wealth, iirc (they even made their coins out of iron so that they would rust away and so you and your family couldn't stay rich). i was under the impression that they were pretty much all around the same wealth and pretty much equipped similarly.

i also remember reading (although maybe i misremembered) that the guys with the armor were the ones that fought in the phalanx - if you didn't have the armor, you became a slinger or skirmisher.

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I was at a museum in Olympia and much armour was on display. What never fails to surprise me is how much we have evolved in size. I would be hard pressed to get a helmet to fit over my fist, let alone my big noggin.[:)]

In the pursuit of historical accuracy, The 300 should have been cast with midgets.[:D]

[Ron Saueracker]

The hoplite panoply was pretty much universal to be a member of the phalanx...with the exception of the ekdromoi (the "runners out" tasked with breaking ranks and killing peltasts and other skirmishers).
Since membership in the phalanx was a requirement for full citizenship in most Greek city states, the bronze armor panoply could be expected to be universal. Furthermore, all illustrative existent evidence points to this (which is actually quite numerous) .
(exception - by the 5th century BC or BCE if you like - a composite linen and leather based torso armor had gained popularity for reasons of body movement).
As for the physical size of ancient Greek warriors - I believe they were a surprising 5'6" on average - the same as western men have always been up until the middle 20th century.

Well, there is no way a 5'6" man could fit into the armour I saw. The helmet might fit a cantaloupe. The breastplate maybe a dog.[8D]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Big B

The hoplite panoply was pretty much universal to be a member of the phalanx...with the exception of the ekdromoi (the "runners out" tasked with breaking ranks and killing peltasts and other skirmishers).
Since membership in the phalanx was a requirement for full citizenship in most Greek city states, the bronze armor panoply could be expected to be universal. Furthermore, all illustrative existent evidence points to this (which is actually quite numerous) .
(exception - by the 5th century BC or BCE if you like - a composite linen and leather based torso armor had gained popularity for reasons of body movement).
As for the physical size of ancient Greek warriors - I believe they were a surprising 5'6" on average - the same as western men have always been up until the middle 20th century.

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Mynok



Since each man provided his own gear, it is highly unlikely that any except the wealthiest wore scale breast/backplates. Hoplon, spear and a helmet only was by far the most common equipage.

Padded or leather armor was more likely to be worn on the body.

Might be true for the Athenians, but for the Spartans? They had a system that eliminated wealth, iirc (they even made their coins out of iron so that they would rust away and so you and your family couldn't stay rich). i was under the impression that they were pretty much all around the same wealth and pretty much equipped similarly.

i also remember reading (although maybe i misremembered) that the guys with the armor were the ones that fought in the phalanx - if you didn't have the armor, you became a slinger or skirmisher.

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I was at a museum in Olympia and much armour was on display. What never fails to surprise me is how much we have evolved in size. I would be hard pressed to get a helmet to fit over my fist, let alone my big noggin.[:)]

In the pursuit of historical accuracy, The 300 should have been cast with midgets.[:D]

i was surprised at this - so i tried checking up on it... it turns out the few references i found said average male height during the Hellenistic period in Greece was around 170 cm = 5 feet 7 inches. This is pretty close to the average height in the Roman army as well (1st century CE) although you had to be taller to join some units like cavalry.