Improving Grand Campaing scen#1
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Improving Grand Campaing scen#1
I am looking forward to playing this mod!
RE: Improving Grand Campaing scen#1
OK. Hmm... being a WITP JFB for almost two decades and having 2 PBEM grand campaigns that took nearly 10 years (with 3rd finishing now...) under my belt, I can tell you that from Japanese perspective:
1. There's nothing more frustrating than having your forces annihilated regularly by Allied 4Es in the clear/open terrain (even more frustrating in '44+). IMHO map correction to eliminate almost all clear hexes is a must. It works both ways actually. If there were any way to introduce a "dual map system".... <dreaming> (I mean an exchange of map hexes file in 12.43 or so with some changes). Because while in '42 a handful of planes can deal some damage in clear terrain, but when in 44 you're attacked by hundreds of big payload 4Es you're simply evaporating.
2. I never ever managed to collect enough fuel in HIs. In 10-11.44 the economy is on the verge of collapse no matter what and you have to CHOSE your production. Last PBEM we took a standard "poor supply" scenario as a PBEM with crsutton and I hoped, damn... I though: "I know the economy soo good..."
but heck, now in 10.44 I see the supplies dwindling. Japan is starving! I don't think I have 500k supplies left. That's said I think your trial to redo the economy is a right decision. I believe AFBs are not aware we have to pay for every change/upgrade of devices (even a mediocre 70mm Bn gun for 75 mm in an LCU) in supplies! I just don't get the "you make Japan even stronger" comments...
3. I really hate only one rule of the game mechanics: moving LCUs in reserve. I think it should be made impossible by the engine when that LCU is going towards enemy. I've seen that spoiling the game and atmosphere between PBEM players. (An explanation: unit moving in reserve mode doesn't get movement points limited, when you move in "move" mode and get attacked f.e. from air your LCU is switched into combat mode.). I never seen reserve is switched into combat. Its like... "Hey troopers... its an important hex edge you have to take before enemy to cancel his movement. Lets all go into reserve, run and pray for the best!". Its ridiculous.
4. Japanese LCUs need some major reworking to respond to enemy tanks flood end game. Id est. JFBs need some upgrade of that mediocre 47 mm AT guns (maybe introduce 57 mm that was in development?) and more of them. Check the AntiARM/SOFT values of INF units that (but only SOME) divisions which get that '43 upgrade, and even then the anti armor capability of that squad is somehow funny... Some, if not most, doesn't change it's values since '41.
In '44 a capable allied leader can throw your forces in Burma or China around at will with 10 ARM brigades.
It can be fixed by device upgrades or LCUs upgrade (bringing some extra AT guns or changing type and number of squads at cost of supplies!).
OK, one may say that we'are here in "what if zone"... Yes, but after 3 years of the war we at least could make some reasonable changes in the economy and prepare for the final stages. I think its safe to say, that JFBs want some chance to live longer. Not just replay the history.
But hey, IMHO this is for the sake of playability in the end months of the game.
Ask AFBs if they really want a weak enemy that late in the game or one that actually CAN do something for this game to last longer...
1. There's nothing more frustrating than having your forces annihilated regularly by Allied 4Es in the clear/open terrain (even more frustrating in '44+). IMHO map correction to eliminate almost all clear hexes is a must. It works both ways actually. If there were any way to introduce a "dual map system".... <dreaming> (I mean an exchange of map hexes file in 12.43 or so with some changes). Because while in '42 a handful of planes can deal some damage in clear terrain, but when in 44 you're attacked by hundreds of big payload 4Es you're simply evaporating.
2. I never ever managed to collect enough fuel in HIs. In 10-11.44 the economy is on the verge of collapse no matter what and you have to CHOSE your production. Last PBEM we took a standard "poor supply" scenario as a PBEM with crsutton and I hoped, damn... I though: "I know the economy soo good..."
but heck, now in 10.44 I see the supplies dwindling. Japan is starving! I don't think I have 500k supplies left. That's said I think your trial to redo the economy is a right decision. I believe AFBs are not aware we have to pay for every change/upgrade of devices (even a mediocre 70mm Bn gun for 75 mm in an LCU) in supplies! I just don't get the "you make Japan even stronger" comments...3. I really hate only one rule of the game mechanics: moving LCUs in reserve. I think it should be made impossible by the engine when that LCU is going towards enemy. I've seen that spoiling the game and atmosphere between PBEM players. (An explanation: unit moving in reserve mode doesn't get movement points limited, when you move in "move" mode and get attacked f.e. from air your LCU is switched into combat mode.). I never seen reserve is switched into combat. Its like... "Hey troopers... its an important hex edge you have to take before enemy to cancel his movement. Lets all go into reserve, run and pray for the best!". Its ridiculous.
4. Japanese LCUs need some major reworking to respond to enemy tanks flood end game. Id est. JFBs need some upgrade of that mediocre 47 mm AT guns (maybe introduce 57 mm that was in development?) and more of them. Check the AntiARM/SOFT values of INF units that (but only SOME) divisions which get that '43 upgrade, and even then the anti armor capability of that squad is somehow funny... Some, if not most, doesn't change it's values since '41.
In '44 a capable allied leader can throw your forces in Burma or China around at will with 10 ARM brigades.
It can be fixed by device upgrades or LCUs upgrade (bringing some extra AT guns or changing type and number of squads at cost of supplies!).
OK, one may say that we'are here in "what if zone"... Yes, but after 3 years of the war we at least could make some reasonable changes in the economy and prepare for the final stages. I think its safe to say, that JFBs want some chance to live longer. Not just replay the history.
But hey, IMHO this is for the sake of playability in the end months of the game.
Ask AFBs if they really want a weak enemy that late in the game or one that actually CAN do something for this game to last longer...
Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł
RE: Improving Grand Campaing scen#1
Hi Viberpol,
I cocnur with some of what you write (especially 2&3) but can not really agree to the numbers 1 and 4.
Resioning:
1. Allies very very very rarely used their 4e planes to attack ground troops. There were SOME cases in Pacific like - B-24s making pre-landing bombardment of beaches but were not making daily runs on enemy troops - reason: bombing inaccuracy - either the Japanese units were far away and thus hardly spotted in jungles, etc. or they were close to allied troops (not European-close, but Jungle close). But the game also lacks a really meaningful interdiction targets that were attacked IRL (warehouses, rail heads, river ports, bridges). In the WITPAE I can regularly see B-24s/B-17s/B-29s attacking ground troops on daily basis.
Thus there should be tweak in allied side, not Japanese, to decrease targeting accuracy of bombs by bomber category (LB/FB/DB highest, heavies piss-poor). Also IRL the air as well as artillery should result mostly in suppression (morale/disruption), not in actual kills/damages).
4. Allies should be hard pressed to keep 10 ARM Brigades in the field in Burma - IRL Slims army was kept just barely supplied by air drops. Arakan front was practically separated from the Central Burma in all means except air and Ledo-Road was barely sufficient to keep their units supplied. Yet we can see allies in each game to keep 20-30 division+armor equivalent marching through Burma without flinching at supply. (IRL central Burma campaign was basically 5 Infantry + 3 Arm Bde effort with basically all supplies airdropped).
Thus Allied Armor should be deadly as is, but the supply distribution is simply crazy especially in the jungles.
I cocnur with some of what you write (especially 2&3) but can not really agree to the numbers 1 and 4.
Resioning:
1. Allies very very very rarely used their 4e planes to attack ground troops. There were SOME cases in Pacific like - B-24s making pre-landing bombardment of beaches but were not making daily runs on enemy troops - reason: bombing inaccuracy - either the Japanese units were far away and thus hardly spotted in jungles, etc. or they were close to allied troops (not European-close, but Jungle close). But the game also lacks a really meaningful interdiction targets that were attacked IRL (warehouses, rail heads, river ports, bridges). In the WITPAE I can regularly see B-24s/B-17s/B-29s attacking ground troops on daily basis.
Thus there should be tweak in allied side, not Japanese, to decrease targeting accuracy of bombs by bomber category (LB/FB/DB highest, heavies piss-poor). Also IRL the air as well as artillery should result mostly in suppression (morale/disruption), not in actual kills/damages).
4. Allies should be hard pressed to keep 10 ARM Brigades in the field in Burma - IRL Slims army was kept just barely supplied by air drops. Arakan front was practically separated from the Central Burma in all means except air and Ledo-Road was barely sufficient to keep their units supplied. Yet we can see allies in each game to keep 20-30 division+armor equivalent marching through Burma without flinching at supply. (IRL central Burma campaign was basically 5 Infantry + 3 Arm Bde effort with basically all supplies airdropped).
Thus Allied Armor should be deadly as is, but the supply distribution is simply crazy especially in the jungles.
RE: Improving Grand Campaing scen#1
Thanks to Covid 19 lockdown, I finally have time to mod a scenario.
My variant is based on grand campaign scenario 1 version 5 by Andy Mac. Notably, Andy has updated the original scenario by putting more bases in Malaya, Burma, etc so as to improve the AI and thus I chose this version.
As I want to retain play against the AI, I have restricted changes to the Map / locations as far as possible. On Japanese plane upgrades, the starting R&D models remained the same as the AI needs it.
I have straighten the upgrade paths for various Japanese plane models. Eg. the insertion of other zero models into path will lengthen the research time for later models but save time as R&D factories do not need to start from scratch. This is done with the objective of letting more models coming into play earlier.
Players can elect to play this scenario with PDU off will just get the planes arrival at the historical date (which I think will be boring). At times, the insertion of other models (eg. A6M2 Sen Baku, A6M5d-S) along the upgrade path may slow R&D for the final model A6M8 unless the Japanese player skipped such models. Players will have to decide before game play.
Where possible, I have created prototype for the some of Japanese planes. Player that research prototype plane (denoted by (x)) will get their R&D factories repaired faster before proceeding to the actual models. If players think this is gamey, they can research the actual model directly which is the stock scenario. Other than Ki-44 which is a prototype used in the stock scenario, I do not recommend Japanese player produce (x) models for air groups, it is just a feature to repair the R&D factories faster and does not fill the regular units. Eg. Ki-44 models are not really deployed on a large scale.
British has invaded Vichy French Syria in Jun 1941. When the Japanese attacked the allies in Dec 1941, Vichy France allowed Japanese to attack British forces in Malaya from Indochina. Thailand started as a neutral but sided with the Japanese. “Bending a Knee” creates a variant which allowed these two nation/regime to play a larger role in the game on the side of Japan. The Thai and French units introduced are from War Options – Scenario 39 by Skyland. Vichy French Navy include a CVL, CS, CA and 4 CL.
Due to limitation of the game engine, players will have to address certain game aspects with house rules. eg.
a) Withdrawal dates of Thai / Vichy is event based
b) Availability of R&D factories to prototype (X) models to repair R&D factories faster
c) Tagging a HQ unit to AV Akitshushima so that it can support Mavis / Emily on dot bases for raid on Allies shipping
d) Introducing Ship Repair Yard to Bangkok and Truk.etc
Alfred has highlighted that having house rules are not conducive for game play. I agree with him, but all games will have limitation. The aim of this mod is to allow players to have a broader experience of stronger japan. In early war, the additional units will help Japan to attempt invading India and Australia.
In mid war, the arrival of better planes can help to delay the allied offensive death star.
In later war, japanese player get to try Jets and long range bomber like Ki-74I Patsy.
I have not played the mod to the end and I could not suggest any victory score cards since allies will win at the end.
Hopefully, this mod will help Japanese player look forward to end of campaign instead of being target practice from 1944 onwards.
All files can be accessed at this link.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtcSdH35Yw5FlS4IsRv ... m?e=H6tYxf
My variant is based on grand campaign scenario 1 version 5 by Andy Mac. Notably, Andy has updated the original scenario by putting more bases in Malaya, Burma, etc so as to improve the AI and thus I chose this version.
As I want to retain play against the AI, I have restricted changes to the Map / locations as far as possible. On Japanese plane upgrades, the starting R&D models remained the same as the AI needs it.
I have straighten the upgrade paths for various Japanese plane models. Eg. the insertion of other zero models into path will lengthen the research time for later models but save time as R&D factories do not need to start from scratch. This is done with the objective of letting more models coming into play earlier.
Players can elect to play this scenario with PDU off will just get the planes arrival at the historical date (which I think will be boring). At times, the insertion of other models (eg. A6M2 Sen Baku, A6M5d-S) along the upgrade path may slow R&D for the final model A6M8 unless the Japanese player skipped such models. Players will have to decide before game play.
Where possible, I have created prototype for the some of Japanese planes. Player that research prototype plane (denoted by (x)) will get their R&D factories repaired faster before proceeding to the actual models. If players think this is gamey, they can research the actual model directly which is the stock scenario. Other than Ki-44 which is a prototype used in the stock scenario, I do not recommend Japanese player produce (x) models for air groups, it is just a feature to repair the R&D factories faster and does not fill the regular units. Eg. Ki-44 models are not really deployed on a large scale.
British has invaded Vichy French Syria in Jun 1941. When the Japanese attacked the allies in Dec 1941, Vichy France allowed Japanese to attack British forces in Malaya from Indochina. Thailand started as a neutral but sided with the Japanese. “Bending a Knee” creates a variant which allowed these two nation/regime to play a larger role in the game on the side of Japan. The Thai and French units introduced are from War Options – Scenario 39 by Skyland. Vichy French Navy include a CVL, CS, CA and 4 CL.
Due to limitation of the game engine, players will have to address certain game aspects with house rules. eg.
a) Withdrawal dates of Thai / Vichy is event based
b) Availability of R&D factories to prototype (X) models to repair R&D factories faster
c) Tagging a HQ unit to AV Akitshushima so that it can support Mavis / Emily on dot bases for raid on Allies shipping
d) Introducing Ship Repair Yard to Bangkok and Truk.etc
Alfred has highlighted that having house rules are not conducive for game play. I agree with him, but all games will have limitation. The aim of this mod is to allow players to have a broader experience of stronger japan. In early war, the additional units will help Japan to attempt invading India and Australia.
In mid war, the arrival of better planes can help to delay the allied offensive death star.
In later war, japanese player get to try Jets and long range bomber like Ki-74I Patsy.
I have not played the mod to the end and I could not suggest any victory score cards since allies will win at the end.
Hopefully, this mod will help Japanese player look forward to end of campaign instead of being target practice from 1944 onwards.
All files can be accessed at this link.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtcSdH35Yw5FlS4IsRv ... m?e=H6tYxf
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Rising-Sun
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RE: Improving Grand Campaing scen#1
ORIGINAL: viberpol
OK. Hmm... being a WITP JFB for almost two decades and having 2 PBEM grand campaigns that took nearly 10 years (with 3rd finishing now...) under my belt, I can tell you that from Japanese perspective:
1. There's nothing more frustrating than having your forces annihilated regularly by Allied 4Es in the clear/open terrain (even more frustrating in '44+). IMHO map correction to eliminate almost all clear hexes is a must. It works both ways actually. If there were any way to introduce a "dual map system".... <dreaming> (I mean an exchange of map hexes file in 12.43 or so with some changes). Because while in '42 a handful of planes can deal some damage in clear terrain, but when in 44 you're attacked by hundreds of big payload 4Es you're simply evaporating.
2. I never ever managed to collect enough fuel in HIs. In 10-11.44 the economy is on the verge of collapse no matter what and you have to CHOSE your production. Last PBEM we took a standard "poor supply" scenario as a PBEM with crsutton and I hoped, damn... I though: "I know the economy soo good..."
3. I really hate only one rule of the game mechanics: moving LCUs in reserve. I think it should be made impossible by the engine when that LCU is going towards enemy. I've seen that spoiling the game and atmosphere between PBEM players. (An explanation: unit moving in reserve mode doesn't get movement points limited, when you move in "move" mode and get attacked f.e. from air your LCU is switched into combat mode.). I never seen reserve is switched into combat. Its like... "Hey troopers... its an important hex edge you have to take before enemy to cancel his movement. Lets all go into reserve, run and pray for the best!". Its ridiculous.
4. Japanese LCUs need some major reworking to respond to enemy tanks flood end game. Id est. JFBs need some upgrade of that mediocre 47 mm AT guns (maybe introduce 57 mm that was in development?) and more of them. Check the AntiARM/SOFT values of INF units that (but only SOME) divisions which get that '43 upgrade, and even then the anti armor capability of that squad is somehow funny... Some, if not most, doesn't change it's values since '41.
In '44 a capable allied leader can throw your forces in Burma or China around at will with 10 ARM brigades.
It can be fixed by device upgrades or LCUs upgrade (bringing some extra AT guns or changing type and number of squads at cost of supplies!).
OK, one may say that we'are here in "what if zone"... Yes, but after 3 years of the war we at least could make some reasonable changes in the economy and prepare for the final stages. I think its safe to say, that JFBs want some chance to live longer. Not just replay the history.
But hey, IMHO this is for the sake of playability in the end months of the game.
Ask AFBs if they really want a weak enemy that late in the game or one that actually CAN do something for this game to last longer...
Sorry for late reply, yeah that what i though. So the game will be completely different than previous history back then on how the Allies uses their forces.
So playing against the AIs, idk, probably would be bad or not even close as the real thing.
Btw i got board game going, been waiting for that Pacific War (second print) that is on P500, wanted to use that and change alot of rules for engagement. Making it more realistic, like up close naval engagement, etc.
