Round two - DING YH v TS

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.

War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]

[:D]

Wait until we're all spelling like Brady [;)]

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.

War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]

Hey, if it's in Wiktionary and Urban Dictionary, that's good enough for me.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/randominity
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Randominity
Although the former does take care to define it as a neologism and google only shows about 8K hits.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: erstad

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.

War in the Pacific -- Admirals' Edition: setting new standards for randominity and truthiness.
[8D]

Hey, if it's in Wiktionary and Urban Dictionary, that's good enough for me.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/randominity
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Randominity
Although the former does take care to define it as a neologism and google only shows about 8K hits.

Words are just putty in my hands...

[TMFoss]

In AE, is it easier to withdraw units in contact. In several games, I have tried to attack an occupied city, only to realize that I do not have enough combat value to win. However, I have been unable to withdraw due to enemy attacks or bombardments, and yet the enemy does not have enough strength to eject my forces. As a result, I am stuck. Has this changed? I know that withdrawing under contact is tricky and can be costly, but it should be able to be done.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Was the attack on Wake's shore batteries helpful? I'm usually reluctant to use carrier air in that role, but I know land-based air isn't an option, at least not that early in the war. Is it necessary to do this in AE to prepare the way for invasion?

So far, in my testing experience, having Kido Butai pass by Wake is most useful to deter the US carriers from interfering with the invasion. More often than not, the initial invasion TF will make it past the six 5" coastal defense guns.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: TMFoss

In AE, is it easier to withdraw units in contact. In several games, I have tried to attack an occupied city, only to realize that I do not have enough combat value to win. However, I have been unable to withdraw due to enemy attacks or bombardments, and yet the enemy does not have enough strength to eject my forces. As a result, I am stuck. Has this changed? I know that withdrawing under contact is tricky and can be costly, but it should be able to be done.

One big change that affects this area is the HEXSIDE control. In stock it was fairly easy to block retreats by blocking the transportation routes. Not true in AE. Now units control HEXSIDES and can withdraw (ONLY) across hexsides they control. The map visible transportation routes influence but do not determine valid retreat paths. Bottom line most testers are reporting that units are "slippery-er" on retreat in AE than they were in stock.

[witpqs]

Joe, I think what he is referring to is that in WITP when an LCU is attempting to move out of a hex with an enemy present, the "miles traveled" counter gets reset to zero whenever the enemy either attacks or bombards. Obviously wrong, as an enemy attack or artillery attack will not pull an LCU back down a trail toward the attack!

Is this little ditty changed in AE?

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 16:

Kuma, Natori, and their 2 remaining DDs sink 2 AKs in 3 fights off Batangas. I have been kind of rushing my turns trying to get into it as far as we can have neglected to include supply, fuel, and most important an AD in with my front line repair force, so now I am going to have to pull them back to Formosa to reload. Lesson learned.

SS Shark put 4 shells (causing 3 system damage) on an AK near Peleliu.

5 Nells dropped out of the rainclouds with 4 P-40s on CAP at Manila and put a torpedo into each of 2 minesweepers and escaped without loss. 7 Zeros follow them in on a sweep and down 1.

2 Sallys lost at Kuantan.

Several strikes against ground troops in central China to slow movement. Moving the air power in China away from Flying Tiger bases.

31 Oscars sweep Malacca and find a Buff in a thunderstorm and shoot it down.

Harassment strike by 2 SB2s with 3 Tigers escort on 3rd div outside Changsha.

3 B-17s raid Davao and find 11 Zeros on CAP. 1 bomber downed and 1 damaged. They missed the airfield.

5 P-40s strafe Naga with 6 Zeros intercepting and downing 1 P-40.

10 P-40s strafe Tuguegarao. 2 Zeros find them and down 1.

16 P-35s strafe Sendai and company causing no damage.

9 Bettys attack shipping at Rangoon. 4 Buffs intercept and down 1 bomber. No hits reported.

16 Zeros sweep Singapore and engage 12 Buffs. 2 Zeros are lost for 4 Buffs.

15 P-35s strafe a TF of AKs near Polillo in the PI doing no damage.

4 Bettys raid Kendari putting 4 hits on the airfield.

2 Bettys with 3 Zeros escort hits Iloilo for light damage.

I had a coastwatcher report 4 ships in Pakhoi harbor (Chinese coast near Hanoi) so several raids were launched by Kates and Mables doing damage to the port facilities but finding no ships there.

Artillery fire continues at Hong Kong. Attack #2 goes in tomorrow.

65th inf bde takes Cayagan against only the Cagayan USAAF Base Force. Most of the rest of the Phil forces on Mindanao have retreated inland. there are scattered forces on the NW part of the island.

As I said earlier, I have been rushing things and forgot to attack at Atimonan last turn, but remembered this turn. It falls undefended to the 33rd inf det.

Alor Star falls undefended to elements of the 5th div.

Laoag falls undefended to the Sasebo 1st SNLF.

And up near the Russian boarder, the 81st Chinese corps lobs some more shells at 1st cav bde.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Joe, I think what he is referring to is that in WITP when an LCU is attempting to move out of a hex with an enemy present, the "miles traveled" counter gets reset to zero whenever the enemy either attacks or bombards. Obviously wrong, as an enemy attack or artillery attack will not pull an LCU back down a trail toward the attack!

Is this little ditty changed in AE?

Yes. Also, units ordered to move to an adjacent hex will move directly into that hex (if possible) rather than taking the "shortest route" (meaning taking a road).

[TMFoss]

Thanks, this is what I meant.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Joe, I think what he is referring to is that in WITP when an LCU is attempting to move out of a hex with an enemy present, the "miles traveled" counter gets reset to zero whenever the enemy either attacks or bombards. Obviously wrong, as an enemy attack or artillery attack will not pull an LCU back down a trail toward the attack!

Is this little ditty changed in AE?

Yes. Also, units ordered to move to an adjacent hex will move directly into that hex (if possible) rather than taking the "shortest route" (meaning taking a road).

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 17: ENTERPRISE SINKS!

I-21 patrolling 400 miles due east of Pearl Harbor launches 6 fish at Enterprise. 1 hit is reported, fires break out. She shows up on sink ships report. Probably a false report, but for now the boys are celebrating.

4 DDs patrolling south of Soc Trang locate a Dutch sub and sinks her. Positive sinking as she surfaced to get her crew off before going down.

11 Zeros sweep Singapore and shoot down 5 of 6 Buffs.

32 Oscars sweep Malacca downing a Buff.

3 Bettys attack a Dutch DD at sea at Kendari for no effect. Another raid in the afternoon attacks a Dutch CL there for no effect. 14 Bettys also hit the airfield causing minor damage.

9 Zeros sweep Rangoon and shoot down 3 of 4 Buffs.

5 Zeros sweep Manila and down a P-40

Georgetown strafed by Nates for no effect.

Kingfishers attack transports closing on Atimonan hitting an AK. P-40s attack later and no hits scored.

Several small raids attacked ships in the Busuanga area. 3 Seagulls and 2 P-26s managed a bomb hit on Natori, 9 P-40Es attacked for no effect, 3 P-35s and 3 P-40Bs also attacked for no effect. 4 more P-35s attack hitting nothing as well. Natori takes 2 additional bomb hits in the afternoon.

2 raids on transports at Vigan by fighters hit nothing. 2nd tank reg unloads. the "C" regiment of the 11 PA division fires at the landing troops for no effect.

Another Sally lost at Kuantan. The squadron is moving to Bangkok.

Several harassment attacks on Chinese ground troops in central China.

A Dutch mine sub O-19 torpedoes a sub chaser west of Formosa. The other SCs in the TF hit her 11 times causing heavy damage. I suspect it either sank already or soon will.

8th tank reg advancing up the west coast of Mindanao attacks elements of the 101 PA reg driving it back at 120:1 odds.

The advance in central China continues as 13 mxd bde attacks 2 Chinese corps at 19:1 inflicting 1400 casualties for 82 of their own. 2 mxd bde attacks 1 corps at 2:1 inflicting almost 1900 losses for less than 300 of theirs.

2nd attack on Hong Kong didnt fare well. 1:2 but only took 300 losses to British 500.

More artillery near Russia.

[cantona2]

Any screenies YH?

[Yamato hugger]

Playing with animations off to see if that solves some sync issues, so no, sorry [:(]

[cantona2]

Ok, ty for the reply

[foliveti]

If ordering of unloading is set by TF number, is it possible to change the TF number of various TFs in a hex? Are you stuck with whatever the computer gives you on that?

[Yamato hugger]

TF numbers are used in order, the first (lowest) number that isnt already being used is the one you get when you create a TF. If you want to switch 2 TFs so one is lower than the other then what you need to do is:

(for this explanation I will use 2 transport TFs numbers 54 and 123)
1) Create a new TF noting the TF number being used.

2) If its lower than the one you sneak in ahead of (say 36 for example) you just transfer all the ships from 123 into it. If you are in a base, you can assign a new TF commander if you wish (you cant do this at sea).

3) If this number is between the 2 you have now (say TF 98 for example) you move 54 into this TF, then you create another TF (this TF number will be 54 since that will be the lowest available number) and you move the ships from TF 123 into this.

4) If the new TF number is higher than the 2nd one (say 221 for example) you just move 54 into it.

In looking at this I would have to say it would be nice if a player could assign TF numbers himself when the TF is created, but this is not going to make the release cut. Maybe someday in a patch.

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 18:

Landing force hits Wake. Shore guns only made 1 hit. It was on a patrol boat and sank her outright. The 144th is on the ground and the first attack only musters a 1:1.

6 PTs intercept a force of 4 AKs near Iba and sink 1 of the loaded transports.

9 Bettys found 2 AKs at Bataan and sank one. He seems to know his AKs dont have a chance if they try to run for it so it appears he is manually moving supplies from Manila to Bataan.

Dutch Martins attacked a pair of minesweepers closing on the NW coast of Borneo for no effect. 4 Blenheims attacked in the afternoon for same effect.

Lots of same old stuff, sweeps, bombing for little to no effect, harassment attacks ect. See no point in beating this old horse.

2nd mxd bde in the mountains near the Russian boarder attack 3 Chinese units driving them back and discovering a bug in the retreat logic. The Chinese retreated towards Russia rather than Chinese territory.

Elements of the 48th div capture Bayombong in the central PI undefended.

Vigan was captured by the 2nd tank reg and 1st Sasebo SNLF driving the "C" regiment of the 11 PA div back.

6th tank reg captures Victoria Point at 52:1 odds.

Airborne troopers that had captured Siquijor landed via fast transport last turn at Surigao and captured it unopposed this turn.

[Yamato hugger]

Attacking the PI is a must. You know it, I know it, the guy you are playing knows it. But how to go about it? Yes, you can load up a bunch of ships and damn the torpedoes and go storming in.

I have found through trial and error (mostly error) that in order to conduct an operation effectively in AE, you have to plan well ahead. Much like the real commanders did.

Part I of this essay will be the northern PI. Mindanao will be part II. First off, this is the map (from the allied point of view). There are numerous bases through the PI, but other than Luzon, only a handful are defended. The 4 bases marked "A" on the map contain strong PI units (well, stronger than an empty base anyway). The 2 bases where the allied TFs are (Cebu and Panay) have divisions sized units that have AVs at or near 100. The other 2 bases have regiments with AVs in the low 30s. The unit at Puerto Princesa is a company sized base force and is for all intents a vacant base.



Tinas in AE cant drop on half the map. There are 3 airborne units that start the game. 1 is a parachute regiment that starts in Kagoshima and is out of range until it is moved. The other 2 are SNLFs on Formosa and from their base with Tinas as transport they can only land in these hexes, not beyond.

Other than Manila, there are only 2 level 3 ports on this map and they are labeled "B". Batangas is the name of the one on Luzon. There is a PA division there, another div in the base to the SE, and 2 divisions plus 4 regiments (and misc other support) in Manila itself. An attack here would require a major effort.

Busuanga is undefended. It can be taken by para assault in the first turn, or the 2nd turn by fast transports. It is on his path out of Subic Bay. It is perfect! Well, not quite perfect. There isnt an airbase there. So you will need an airbase close enough to provide CAP cover, or you do it with floatplanes.

The Purple boxed bases all have level 1 airfields, which is all you need for CAP. The red ones are level 2+ meaning they can be used as strike bases. The only strike bases in the PI are on Luzon, Mindanao, and 2 islands: Panay and Jolo. Jolo is undefended but out of parachute range at start. You can air transport a para to Cam Rahn Bay and drop on Jolo from there. "C" is Taytay, the closest CAP field to Busuanga.

Now in this game I made several mistakes. Well not mistakes par se, I just fell off the learning cliff [;)]. My first mistake was I looked at the above map and saw a nice clear valley all the way to Manila / Clark so I decided to land both the 48th and the 16th at Aparri foregoing everything else. Well it was such a cluster fark that the 48th never did get unloaded, so I ended up diverting it south where the 16th normally would have landed.

So lesson 1 is dont plan on more than 1 regiment per day unloading at a beach / level 1 port.

Lesson 2: I waited a day before beginning loading the 48th as I didnt want to get hit by a suicide run by the Brit DDs in Hong Kong again. Keep a CL or 2 with a handful of DDs with a react of ZERO (so they wont leave the TF they are escorting), and drive on.

Lesson 3: I took Taytay by fast transport carrying an airfield co which in and of itself is fine. But I didnt send a follow-up force with supplies. I also didnt allocate a CAP to the fast transport group and they wasted a day or 2 because of air threat (TFs will retreat from air or surface threat if they dont have enough cover force).

Lesson 4: I didnt send tankers or tenders with my Busuanga landing force and too few supplies. I had a HQ and naval support for repairs, but I had no way to reload or refuel my ships after they got there.

Grabbing a level 3 port in the area is important, it saved several of my ships. But you also need to defend it (after he hit me with PTs that first time I assigned a DD squadron there to protect it). And if you want to use it for an operations base you need to have the tenders in there as well. You need an AD to reload torps at a level 3 port (or a truckload of nav support guys - in the hundreds) and a level 3 port with no nav support can only reload 3" guns. With 50 nav support you can do 6". I had 1 base force (about 120 nav support) and a naval HQ (about 240 more). With that many nav support I could reload up to 8" guns and any torpedo EXCEPT the Long Lance. A 2nd base force would have allowed it (you need 424 nav support at a level 3 to rearm Long Lances).

Or simply put an AD in the harbor. One thing to note about tenders in AE: you need supplies on the tender for it to function.

Lesson 5: Actually I knew this already but it was confirmed this game - get eyes out there. Even a level 1 port can operate a float or patrol plane. Grab a few in key areas and get your Jake and Mavis search planes out there, but again, dont forget to bring supplies also.

[Elladan]

Does lesson 1 apply to atoll assaults as well? If the answer is yes then the practical limit for invasion forces would be 1 reinforced regiment?