Advanced Third Reich/ World at War

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: po8crg

ORIGINAL: coregames

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
I thought I saw that this project was cancelled 2 or 3 years ago. I could be wrong.

Given how the two products, MWiF and MaWaW, might step on eachother's toes a bit, that wouldn't surprise me.

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
Avalon Hill was sold a couple of years later.

Interesting line of acquisition: AH > TSR > WoC > Hasbro.
Does Hasbro, GMT or Bruce Harper now own the A3R franchise? I just visited the GMT site and it's still up; Harper and GMT own AWAW at least, but does that include A3R and ERS?

AH was sold direct to Hasbro (by Monarch Press, its previous parent company).

SPI was bought by TSR, which was bought by WotC, which was bought by Hasbro. All the wargames, roleplaying games, etc, are gathered together in the WotC division of Hasbro.

Hasbro / WotC sublicense the rights to many of the old Avalon Hill / SPI wargames they own to various specialist companies that publish them and continue to develop them. For example, MMP license Advanced Squad Leader and the GCACW series, GMT license A3R and ERS, and then both of them have developed their own products based on those systems.

Hasbro are prepared to negotiate reasonable terms for sublicensing their AH/SPI copyrights on any games that aren't already being reprinted.

For games that AH made under licence themselves, the rights have usually reverted to their original publisher, e.g. Empires in Arms back to Australian Design Group, Civilization back to Francis Tresham.

There are a handful of games where the rights are such a mess they are unlikely ever to be reprinted, notably Advanced Civilization and 1830; for both of these, you would need licences from both Tresham and from Hasbro.

Thank you.[&o] Very informative.

[TemKarl]

SPI was bought by TSR, which was bought by WotC, which was bought by Hasbro. All the wargames, roleplaying games, etc, are gathered together in the WotC division of Hasbro.

The rights to many SPI Boxed game titles were sold by TSR to Decision Games in the early 80's. DG have updated and reprinted various SPI titles over the past 20 years. SPI's flagship magazine S&T ( with a game in each issue ) has been published 6 times a year by Decision Games since the late 80's - it's been in continuous print for over 40 years.

[ETF]

Here here!!

Lets face it Wif is just a ported board game......or am I missing anything? Mind you it was one of the best wargames ever made!

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: cwie

The rights to many SPI Boxed game titles were sold by TSR to Decision Games in the early 80's. DG have updated and reprinted various SPI titles over the past 20 years. SPI's flagship magazine S&T ( with a game in each issue ) has been published 6 times a year by Decision Games since the late 80's - it's been in continuous print for over 40 years.

I assume Victory Games passed along with AH's product line, to Hasbro? Pax Britannica would be a simple game to port for PBEM I would think.

[pzgndr]

Any informations about adaptation of AR3 (Advanced Third Reich, I suppose) as PC game

It would be great if someone/anyone would update the old Computer Third Reich PC game to current O/S and overhaul the AI. The game itself was fine except for a few bugs correctable by 3R Gold. Maybe won't be so critical when the MWiF Fascist Tide scenario is available?

I got tired of waiting and made my own A3R adaptation as a PC game, using the Strategic Command series editor with text editable AI scripting. I just posted something about this last week at General Discussion. Finding just the right balance for both Axis and Allied AI as challenging computer opponents has been tough. The scripting approach may or may not be the ideal way to do it, but it's certainly doable for the average modder and doesn't require programming skills. The MWiF LAIO approach appears solid and it will be interesting to see how it performs. After MWiF is done done, I'd love to see a similar project for A3R/WaW. [&o]

[brian brian]

That would be interesting to know how Victory Games fits into that nice concise description above. Their strategic level Civl War game was one of my favorites. With random leader setup I once had Stonewall Jackson appear in Missouri, win at Wilson's Creek, take St. Louis, control the Mississippi, and the Federals were through.

Also it is great to hear that someone is working on the Great Battles of The American Civil War series. I'm reading a detailed take on the 1st Battle of Manassass right now and it is making me want to maneuver some regiments around...

[bo]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Any informations about adaptation of AR3 (Advanced Third Reich, I suppose) as PC game

It would be great if someone/anyone would update the old Computer Third Reich PC game to current O/S and overhaul the AI. The game itself was fine except for a few bugs correctable by 3R Gold. Maybe won't be so critical when the MWiF Fascist Tide scenario is available?

I got tired of waiting and made my own A3R adaptation as a PC game, using the Strategic Command series editor with text editable AI scripting. I just posted something about this last week at General Discussion. Finding just the right balance for both Axis and Allied AI as challenging computer opponents has been tough. The scripting approach may or may not be the ideal way to do it, but it's certainly doable for the average modder and doesn't require programming skills. The MWiF LAIO approach appears solid and it will be interesting to see how it performs. After MWiF is done done, I'd love to see a similar project for A3R/WaW. [&o]

Pzgndr I downloaded 3rd Reich from the where Welk told me to go a week ago and I am enjoying it , actually was having a rather bad time from the AI until I started to remember the rules and German tactics, since then I am doing much better defeating Russia etc. but as I move on in the game I can see the very same thing that had me remove it from my computer years ago, poor AI, I am now the allies and it is winter 1942 and still Germany has not attacked Russia[?] I have not read all of the posts but what is the conclusion of where does the game lie now, with what company?

Bo

[pzgndr]

Pzgndr I downloaded 3rd Reich from the where Welk told me to go ...what is the conclusion of where does the game lie now, with what company?

I have no idea. That's the old Avalon Hill PC game version, rights transferred to Hasbro at some point.

It's annoying to no end that whoever owns the rights won't release them for a new development effort; I assume that's still the case. I actually touched base with David Hiller one of the programmers several years ago sniffing for code for personal use only and couldn't touch it. I can't see what those out-of-publication rights are worth at present, if anything. There's potential of course, but somebody has to do something. Maybe if we all chant in unison "Let Go of Third Reich PC" then maybe something would happen? Oh well. At least we have Fascist Tide to look forward to.

[Sewerlobster]

ORIGINAL: bo
Pzgndr I downloaded 3rd Reich from the where Welk told me to go a week ago and I am enjoying it , actually was having a rather bad time from the AI until I started to remember the rules and German tactics, since then I am doing much better defeating Russia etc. but as I move on in the game I can see the very same thing that had me remove it from my computer years ago, poor AI, I am now the allies and it is winter 1942 and still Germany has not attacked Russia[?] I have not read all of the posts but what is the conclusion of where does the game lie now, with what company?
Bo

The 3rd Reich PC game requires a DOS shell emulator to play and the AI is atrocious but man, it's the only thing tiding me over until MWif is ready.

If I play the Axis I always force myself to conquer every country on the map (yes Arabia and Ireland) before finishing the last Alllied major. Playing the Allies is even worse. Germany will not only often not attack Russia but also can occassionally decide to not attack Paris until the Allies lands in Europe. I have had several games where the last French 2-3 holds Paris against repeated attritions until I decide to land forces in Europe. Almost every game ends with huge SW advantage just crippling the inept lame AI.

But I love it.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

ORIGINAL: bo
Pzgndr I downloaded 3rd Reich from the where Welk told me to go a week ago and I am enjoying it , actually was having a rather bad time from the AI until I started to remember the rules and German tactics, since then I am doing much better defeating Russia etc. but as I move on in the game I can see the very same thing that had me remove it from my computer years ago, poor AI, I am now the allies and it is winter 1942 and still Germany has not attacked Russia[?] I have not read all of the posts but what is the conclusion of where does the game lie now, with what company?
Bo

The 3rd Reich PC game requires a DOS shell emulator to play and the AI is atrocious but man, it's the only thing tiding me over until MWif is ready.

If I play the Axis I always force myself to conquer every country on the map (yes Arabia and Ireland) before finishing the last Alllied major. Playing the Allies is even worse. Germany will not only often not attack Russia but also can occassionally decide to not attack Paris until the Allies lands in Europe. I have had several games where the last French 2-3 holds Paris against repeated attritions until I decide to land forces in Europe. Almost every game ends with huge SW advantage just crippling the inept lame AI.

But I love it.

Thanks Sewerfish for the info, it was one of the best board games ever made in my opinion, dont know anything about WIF's ranking. Advanced 3rd Reich was even better than the first addition but the AI ooophaa. They never supported it when it came out and I cant remember if there was even one patch to correct the idiotic AI. The only good thing about the AI is it sure knows how to caculate all the odds when attacking and where to fly defensive sorties against an attacker, you would think someone would take this on and redo it, There are a few companies who I think could do it and a few I wouldn't want to see them touch it, guess we will not have to worry about that huh!

Bo

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: bo

...dont know anything about WIF's ranking.

While it was clear to me that WiF was along the same lines as Third Reich when i first played in 1991, ADG adopted numerous innovations over what Avalon Hill accomplished. If you visit the ADG site ( http://www.a-d-g.com.au/ ), the list of accolades for their game can be seen. I've never played A3R or ERS, but based on my 3R experience, the only disadvantage that WiF has when compared to it is the length of time required to play, which is substantially greater. The impulse system is the biggest advantage, but there are others which I'm sure you will discover once you try it out for yourself.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: ETF

Here here!!

Lets face it Wif is just a ported board game......or am I missing anything? Mind you it was one of the best wargames ever made!

ETF I cant comment on some of the games you talked about but Carries at War was a no no, which brings up my favorite argument as I have before, if Matrix put out a demo of their games some of them would never sell, not because they are poor games or bad AI it might just be it does not fit your style of play, and of course I will be called anti Matrix for that comment, I heard the explanation of why Matrix refuses to put out a demo and its full of holes, as many of you know Strategic Command Global is about to hit the market but you can try it out in their demo to see if that kind of game is for you or not. How many of you have thrown money down the drain here for poorly done games. The argument that Steves gives for not doing a demo for MWIF is plausible for me but the other games should have a demo. At another war game store they came out theater of war, I saw the demo and it was good game good graphics but not for me its on the order of combat mission, but the demo saved me from putting out hard earned bucks [social security check[&o]] One company puts out demo for every game another company never puts out one, I guess we all have to guess why. Now if Im being negative so be it, but the truth is the truth, will I buy MWIF of course just to see what all the hoopla is about.

Bo

[wworld7]

Bo,

You are not Anti-Matrix, you just disagree with the way they run their business. You have a right to feel that way, but let it go. How many times do you want to write the same thing? It gets a little boring after the first time.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Bo,

You are not Anti-Matrix, you just disagree with the way they run their business. You have a right to feel that way, but let it go. How many times do you want to write the same thing? It gets a little boring after the first time.

Thank you Flipperwasirish as always for your observations if I answer this in any way I will be called borderline trolling so thank you for your opinion.

Bo

[wworld7]

Bo,

I don't think you are trolling, and I believe everyone has the right to express an opinion. That is why Matrix goes to the expense of providing this forum, they want input from the customers. Which in my mind is a good thing.

Be well,

[Palle]

ORIGINAL: tactician93612

With that being said, this game while still in development is going to be one of the best boardgame to PC
transitions! I am at an awe with this venture. I would like to see it as a stepping stone for Advanced
Squad Leader to be ported on to the PC platform (yeah, I know.. don't hold my breath!). Here's to hopes
and prayer's none the less. =)

With that being said, this game while still in development is going to be one of the best boardgame to PC
transitions! I am at an awe with this venture. I would like to see it as a stepping stone for Advanced
Squad Leader to be ported on to the PC platform (yeah, I know.. don't hold my breath!). Here's to hopes
and prayer's none the less. =)

It has been for a long time, it is called Steel Panthers, there is a WaW and a SPWWII/MBT variant from two different companies of the same old Steel panthers engine. I prefer the SPWWII/MBT one. It is a free DL from Shrapnnell Games.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Palle

It has been for a long time, it is called Steel Panthers, there is a WaW and a SPWWII/MBT variant from two different companies of the same old Steel panthers engine. I prefer the SPWWII/MBT one. It is a free DL from Shrapnnell Games.

Steel Panthers, a good memory [:)], tactical game I did enjoy. Can you tell more about those variants?

[Palle]

I cannot remember the differences, but the one I prefer is a very improved game even from the original.

You can find it here.