The Japanese Economy

[Mike Solli]

I just did a brief assessment of engines vs. airframes to see what things look like:

Engine Production Need

Ha-31 45 55
Ha-32 60 96
Ha-33 65 107
Ha-5 7 12
Ha-34 10 0
Ha-35 180 168
Nak Kot 25 45
Hit Early 40 32
Hit Amak 11 9

That's without making any changes to the airframe factories.

[Kitakami]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I just did a brief assessment of engines vs. airframes to see what things look like:

Engine Production Need

Ha-31 45 55
Ha-32 60 96
Ha-33 65 107
Ha-5 7 12
Ha-34 10 0
Ha-35 180 168
Nak Kot 25 45
Hit Early 40 32
Hit Amak 11 9

That's without making any changes to the airframe factories.

If and when Ki-27 production is changed to another airframe, the 25x Nakajima Kotobuki factory could be changed to something else... only the E8N2 plane uses that engine, so that is a no-factor. When to do this will depend on the strategic situation, but it should be doable at some point.

If and when Ki-36 production is changed to another airframe, the 40x Hitachi (early) factory could be changed to something else... the planes that use that engine are the Ki-36 (17 reinforcing units, 12 of them in 1945), Ki-54b (4 reinforcing units, all in 1945), Ki-54c (1 reinforcing unit, in Jan 43)), Ki-59 (no reinforcements), Ki-76 (1 reinforcing unit, in Jul 44), and Ki-79a (5 reinforcing units, all in 1945). I believe we could live without the Ki-54c and Ki-76 units (as it is only one of each), and probably without the Ki-79a and Ki-54b units (they arrive too late to make a difference, and other engines would be better used earlier in the war). The question is when to switch production from Ki-36 to another airframe, as 17 units is a hefty number and, as bad as Japanese light bombers are, they do have their uses. Most of them come late, though, so it may be worthwhile to make the change early.

Switching air units from one plane to another will have to become an art form... amd Japanese industrial expansion is going to be a MAJOR headache... I guess we all agree on that

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

First Question: Has anything changed regarding the automatic movement of Resources between the Home Islands? I though I read somewhere that we now have to pick up and move Resources between Home Islands. Is this the case?

In WitP the free transfer of material between adjacent ports was unlimited. In AE it still happens but is limited. The rates are in the manual (Section 9.3.3.3 AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF BULK CARGO BETWEEN ADJACENT PORTS).

Is there still a loss of certain percentage of material transferred in such a way?

No changes there as far as I am aware.

Andrew

[madgamer2]

my admiration to you for not only drawing up this thing (it looks great) but understanding it as well!....OUTSTANDING! I do like looking at it but understanding it is just not within the realm
of possibility of an old fart like me.

I am sure it will help many others who have the smarts to use it.......I was never a good chess player either ....planing ahead is not my strong point.

Madgamer

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ok, here's some data on ship hauling capacities. Note that there are some unusual things, such as AKs hauling liquids. 88 xAKs can each haul 300 liquid tons. May come in handy. Also note that some TKs can haul cargo! The 5 largest TKs, Tonan Whalers [:D], can haul 2170 tons of cargo in addition to 15350 tons of liquids. Very nice, but there are only 5 of them so guard them. (I haven't looked at reinforcements for anything, so I have no clue about what's coming yet.)

Take a look at troop transport capabilities. Note that APs make up only 32% of that capacity. Also note that the ability of AKs to haul troops can be increased, but at a substantial cost in cargo capacity.

Also keep in mind that the amount of resources needed to feed the HI and LI centers has increased exponentially. It used to take 1 resource to feed 1 HI factory to produce 1 HI. Now it takes 20 resources (and 2 fuel) to feed 1 HI factory to produce 2 HI. That's 10x what it used to cost. [X(] I haven't looked at centers yet to see how that has changed, but, needless to say, it's going to take lots of AKs to feed Japan's industry. No more droves of AKs sitting in port. [:(]

After looking at the map I'm starting to wonder if there are enough resource centers to feed all the industry anyway. You may end up with AKs sitting in port cause there is nothing left to pick up.

[madgamer2]

Just reading through this thread makes my head hurt. As I have stated before I wonder if AE with the masive manual, very,very,very long learning cliff, and uber micro managing a good thing?
I read where many of you use play aids, planning maps, and other things including taking notes each turn. I guess to me this is not game playing its something .....different...something that I know I do not have the time or brain power or desire to commit to this monster.
For those of you who can and enjoy such games as this are people I admire greatly. I don't think for me AE is not like WitP when it comes to just casual game playing. I have read this forum from cover to cover so to speak and I am ashamed to admit I
understood so little of it even with a history of several years of playing WitP.
Its kind of odd but I have been playing war games,simulation games and such from board to computer and always liked the grand strategic level games but I have to admit I have no head for playing them. Am I the only person who loves something that he does not have the ability to enjoy.

So to all Happy sailing, good shooting, keep your head down and remember so ya can tell your grand kids about the great computer Pacific war game you actually finished. I hope who ever gets to the end of this game please let me know and I will buy you a tall cool one if we ever meet.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

it still will take weeks,months even years depending on your desire and fortitude to say nothing of your brain power. This is the first game I have ever seen or played that I did not think I could do it. I could I suppose but the cost is to great for me but it is a fantastic game so hang in there and with help you will make it.

Madgamer

[seydlitz_slith]

Hey, you can even put this on your resume. "Project Manager, Japanese Historical Scenario, WITP-AE. Duties included planning, monitoring, and directing all military industry for the empire of Japan for a 4 year period."

[bilbow]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ok, here's some data on ship hauling capacities. Note that there are some unusual things, such as AKs hauling liquids. 88 xAKs can each haul 300 liquid tons. May come in handy. Also note that some TKs can haul cargo! The 5 largest TKs, Tonan Whalers [:D], can haul 2170 tons of cargo in addition to 15350 tons of liquids. Very nice, but there are only 5 of them so guard them. (I haven't looked at reinforcements for anything, so I have no clue about what's coming yet.)

Take a look at troop transport capabilities. Note that APs make up only 32% of that capacity. Also note that the ability of AKs to haul troops can be increased, but at a substantial cost in cargo capacity.

Also keep in mind that the amount of resources needed to feed the HI and LI centers has increased exponentially. It used to take 1 resource to feed 1 HI factory to produce 1 HI. Now it takes 20 resources (and 2 fuel) to feed 1 HI factory to produce 2 HI. That's 10x what it used to cost. [X(] I haven't looked at centers yet to see how that has changed, but, needless to say, it's going to take lots of AKs to feed Japan's industry. No more droves of AKs sitting in port. [:(]

After looking at the map I'm starting to wonder if there are enough resource centers to feed all the industry anyway. You may end up with AKs sitting in port cause there is nothing left to pick up.

After running the 12/7turn I loaded up WITP staff and found that 276,000 resources were produced by Japan, and used 279,000. There's a deficit, but 276000 per day plus whatever is captured is a LOT of resource to haul. Remember that unlike WITP, each resource center generates 20 per day, not just a single point.

[n01487477]

Guys,
if you used my little VB application, you'd realise it isn't Res you should be too concerned with but Oil, just dial in the potential captures of OilC/OilRef etc ... I've quickly looked at the potential captures and this is the danger ...

I'm heavily working on that other little application you might have heard of [;)]and I hope it will save you a bit of time thinking about all the numbers here...esp. the airframe/engine dilemma.

--Damian--

[Kitakami]

ORIGINAL: madgamer

it still will take weeks,months even years depending on your desire and fortitude to say nothing of your brain power. This is the first game I have ever seen or played that I did not think I could do it. I could I suppose but the cost is to great for me but it is a fantastic game so hang in there and with help you will make it.

Madgamer

That is how I felt the first time I looked at WitP... and again the first time I looked at AE...

And then, after playing Coral Sea twice against tha AI, and by sneaking half an hour here, an hour there, cutting lunch break short, taking notes, etc... well... things have started to fall into place. I am sure my first runs of the Campaign will be terrible but, in the end, it will be worth it.

Perhaps the smaller scenarios are less daunting to you? Guadalcanal is quite good... and I read that others are being worked on...

[Rainer79]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Guys,
if you used my little VB application, you'd realise it isn't Res you should be too concerned with but Oil, just dial in the potential captures of OilC/OilRef etc ... I've quickly looked at the potential captures and this is the danger ...

That seems to be the case. Especially fuel could become a problem as major fleet operations will now directly compete with your industrial demands now.

There are also a couple of interesting tidbits about the navy that (IIRC) nobody mentioned yet:

-) You should be able to further increase available AK capacity by converting the larger Ansyu PB class back into xAKs. To keep the number of escorts constant you can convert the small 170 capacity AKLs into PBs instead.

-) 2 larger AK classes (Husimi and Kyushu Cargos) can be converted into ARs starting from April/May 42. The conversion process will take a year though. So until early 43 the IJN is restricted to the 2 ARs available from the beginning.

-) All 4 CS can now be converted into CVLs (if they survive). That means a potential 2 extra flight decks will be available.

-) Additionally Fuso and Yamashiro can also be converted into hybrid carriers. I am not convinced about the usefulness though.

-) Finally the IJN has a single LSD at the start of the campaign with another arriving in March 42 (and two more later on). They might be very useful for follow-up invasions once the amphib bonus has run out.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
4. Torpedo bombers: 68 on land, 189 on CVs, 144 replacements (only 32 B5N2 though). Production ZERO. 3 CV/CVL-based and 15 land-based torpedo groups as reinforcements. The 0(0) B5N2 factory in Hiroshima/Kure should be increased to 32 or 64/mo. Which? Again, depends on industry. I am siding on 64 at this point though... thse guys are the IJN air arm's sting...

I would only expand to 32 per month. Most land based torpedo bombers will be using bombs 90% of the time and can be changed out for dedicated DBs as your stocks increase - or even upgraded to level bombers for that matter. Where you will need TB is for your carriers - but most times when I lose a lot of TBs from my carriers I am fighting other carriers - thus my flattops need repair time so having to wait a week or 2 to refill the TB squadrons on the ship is not a big deal, since it will take longer than that to repair the ships.

You have to remember an important fact - just like in WitP you get a random 1-30 to add to the size of the aircraft factory and then divide by 30 to get how many planes a day you build. So at 32 planes you will be building 1 a day with an occaisonal bonus plane thrown in. If possible, you want the factory to be in the mid to high 40s so you will usually get 2 planes a day - this is an easy way to double your output without much trouble and affects all aircraft.

I hope to find some spare time this weekend to look over the economy and the mess that we call China and have some insight.

Xargun

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
4. Torpedo bombers: 68 on land, 189 on CVs, 144 replacements (only 32 B5N2 though). Production ZERO. 3 CV/CVL-based and 15 land-based torpedo groups as reinforcements. The 0(0) B5N2 factory in Hiroshima/Kure should be increased to 32 or 64/mo. Which? Again, depends on industry. I am siding on 64 at this point though... thse guys are the IJN air arm's sting...

I would only expand to 32 per month. Most land based torpedo bombers will be using bombs 90% of the time and can be changed out for dedicated DBs as your stocks increase - or even upgraded to level bombers for that matter. Where you will need TB is for your carriers - but most times when I lose a lot of TBs from my carriers I am fighting other carriers - thus my flattops need repair time so having to wait a week or 2 to refill the TB squadrons on the ship is not a big deal, since it will take longer than that to repair the ships.

You have to remember an important fact - just like in WitP you get a random 1-30 to add to the size of the aircraft factory and then divide by 30 to get how many planes a day you build. So at 32 planes you will be building 1 a day with an occaisonal bonus plane thrown in. If possible, you want the factory to be in the mid to high 40s so you will usually get 2 planes a day - this is an easy way to double your output without much trouble and affects all aircraft.

I hope to find some spare time this weekend to look over the economy and the mess that we call China and have some insight.

Xargun

I don´t think this is quite what the random number is about. The thing is, with production given per month, daily production is always going to be X planes and Y/30 of a plane; the game rounds production numbers per day down. With rnd(30) added to the monthly number, Y out of 30 times the total of Y+rnd(30) is going to be 30 or more, meaning that the daily production is rounded down to X+1, and (30-Y) times it is going to be less than thirty, meaning that production is rounded down to X. This ensures that, over time, monthly production totals are going to be exactly the monthly production number. Or rather, the production number is for a 30-day period, not exactly a month.

[Kitakami]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

I would only expand to 32 per month. Most land based torpedo bombers will be using bombs 90% of the time and can be changed out for dedicated DBs as your stocks increase - or even upgraded to level bombers for that matter. Where you will need TB is for your carriers - but most times when I lose a lot of TBs from my carriers I am fighting other carriers - thus my flattops need repair time so having to wait a week or 2 to refill the TB squadrons on the ship is not a big deal, since it will take longer than that to repair the ships.

<snip>

Xargun

I like your reasoning. 32 it will be to start with. Later it can be increased if need be.

The problem with seeking a production of 45+ airframes per month is that we may only have a few factories to spare, even if we are VERY agressive in airframe production decisions (eliminating Ki-27b, Ki-36, Ki-51, and/or Ki-56 production), depending on style of play. So to assign a second factory to B5N2 production is not going to be easy, especially since A6M2, C5M2, Ki-43-Ic, and/or Ki-48-Ib might be competing for additional factory space. So for the airframes that we can only spare one factory for, the decision for most airframes is either production of <a value> or 2x <the value> airframes, due to how the expansion of factories works. Not easy to come up with an intermediate number.

One exception, but that is with the big Ha-35 engine factory... it goes from 180 to 280, and then to 380 (if anyone were inclined to increase production to that level). It does not go from 180 to 360. Jumps are in increments of 100 engines.

Hope the ravings of this lunatic are making some sense

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
The problem with seeking a production of 45+ airframes per month is that we may only have a few factories to spare, even if we are VERY agressive in airframe production decisions (eliminating Ki-27b, Ki-36, Ki-51, and/or Ki-56 production), depending on style of play. So to assign a second factory to B5N2 production is not going to be easy, especially since A6M2, C5M2, Ki-43-Ic, and/or Ki-48-Ib might be competing for additional factory space. So for the airframes that we can only spare one factory for, the decision for most airframes is either production of <a value> or 2x <the value> airframes, due to how the expansion of factories works. Not easy to come up with an intermediate number.

One exception, but that is with the big Ha-35 engine factory... it goes from 180 to 280, and then to 380 (if anyone were inclined to increase production to that level). It does not go from 180 to 360. Jumps are in increments of 100 engines.

Hope the ravings of this lunatic are making some sense

Actually I believe all factories follow the same upgrade rule - if under 100 it doubles... Over 100 it adds 100 to it. But be careful of enlarging your engine factories too big as later in the war when you are short on HI you won't get any engines out of the factory as you have to have enough HI for the ENTIRE factory to run in order to get any... SO if you
are 1 HI short you will produce no Ha-35s that turn. I try not to have any factories over 100 as they get problematic to keep running on a daily basis. Usually 120 or so is ok, but I refuse to go much higher as I'm afraid of losing production.

Xargun

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
The problem with seeking a production of 45+ airframes per month is that we may only have a few factories to spare, even if we are VERY agressive in airframe production decisions (eliminating Ki-27b, Ki-36, Ki-51, and/or Ki-56 production), depending on style of play. So to assign a second factory to B5N2 production is not going to be easy, especially since A6M2, C5M2, Ki-43-Ic, and/or Ki-48-Ib might be competing for additional factory space. So for the airframes that we can only spare one factory for, the decision for most airframes is either production of <a value> or 2x <the value> airframes, due to how the expansion of factories works. Not easy to come up with an intermediate number.

One exception, but that is with the big Ha-35 engine factory... it goes from 180 to 280, and then to 380 (if anyone were inclined to increase production to that level). It does not go from 180 to 360. Jumps are in increments of 100 engines.

Hope the ravings of this lunatic are making some sense

Actually I believe all factories follow the same upgrade rule - if under 100 it doubles... Over 100 it adds 100 to it. But be careful of enlarging your engine factories too big as later in the war when you are short on HI you won't get any engines out of the factory as you have to have enough HI for the ENTIRE factory to run in order to get any... SO if you
are 1 HI short you will produce no Ha-35s that turn. I try not to have any factories over 100 as they get problematic to keep running on a daily basis. Usually 120 or so is ok, but I refuse to go much higher as I'm afraid of losing production.

Xargun

My largest engine factory is the only one over 100 I get, which in Vanilla WiTP was the Hitachi factory you started with. This one I quickly changed to Nakajima since I wasn't going to use Ki-36s. Haven't done a lot with Japanese economy in AE yet, but I will probably follow the same rule, average engine factory size will be between 60-80.

[Mike Solli]

That's a good point, Xargun.&nbsp; And yes, any factory over 100 increases by 100.

[Q-Ball]

Been away for a couple days, you guys have the Japanese Economy all figured out now?[:D]

[Mike Solli]

Ha, yeah, sure. [:D]