Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812.

[moses]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Looks like the Russians might be getting a wee bit stronger also, I see a few "2s" and "3s" out there amongst the sea of "1s" [:)] ... BTW I finally downloaded the game and can clearly see that the NODL defense will not work. The German armor does have way too much movement, not to mention combat strength.

I don't realy see them getting stronger at this point. Russian strength is just over 4 million which is where it has been from the start. I expect the next 5 weeks will be the bloodiest yet as he can no longer retreat. If my pocket in the south pans out the Russians might lose 1.5 to 2 million men in the next 5 weeks. This is well beyond replacement and it is easy to imagine going into the mud turns with a Russian army in the 3 to 3.5 million range.

The german army is above 3 million and with the minor allies the axis would be numerically equal to the Russians and much better in quality. Keeping in mind that a chunk of the Russian army is stuck in the caucusas I might get through winter safely.

I think Tophat just lost too many troops fighting forward in those early weeks. That put him at a disadvantage in the later battles which allowed me to inflict greater losses still. He is just unable to put up a solid front and so every week I cut off a slice of his army.

I do expect the Moscow defences to thicken very quickly but that will be at the expence of all the other areas.

[MrLongleg]

My opponent di ch better by running away from turn 1 one. His casualties are way lower and I am having a hard time inflicting big casualties. It is turn 16 and single rifle divs already can have defense values around 10. Only bright spot is that I create a nice pocket in the Kursk area with 20+ divisions in it. At turn 10 the Russian casualties were about 400 K lower than in your fight. Now I only have one clear turn left before the mud season kicks in.[&:]

[moses]

I wonder what would happen if a Russian player just flat out ran to his final defence line from turn 1. Move everything to a line 3 hexes in front of Moscow and dig in. In the South everything runs across the Dnepr and goes about 10-15 hexes further and digs in. Everything moves as fast as it's MP's allow.

I suppose you could go 5 or 6 weeks with the Russian losing very few casualties other then the normal amount for the first two weeks. The German would arrive at the final line way before the historical date but at the end of a long supply line. What then?

The German army would be fresh since it would had done little more then a long unopposed march. Perhaps after a week building supply the German would still crush the Soviets. Or perhaps the Russians fortified and at full strength would stop the german cold.

Someone will try it.

[karonagames]

Or perhaps the Russians fortified and at full strength would stop the german cold.

Don't think so - only fortified urban hexes generate scary defensive CVs. In clear terrain you might get to level 4 entrenchments in 6 weeks if you were in civilian digger range of Moscow. You could stuff it with the tank heavy motorised divisions and get the CVs up in the 90s, but the line outside of digger range would struggle to get to lvl3 and CVs might get into the 40s. Once the Germans arrive they would just make spoiling attacks to reduce the entrenchments, and I think they would last no more than 6 weeks. 5 weeks of clear to push past Moscow and 6 weeks to dig in before the blizzard.

Someone might try it, but it won't be me.

[moses]

You may well be correct, but I wonder.

The Russians can almost stop the german around Smolensk. Not quite of course as any competant German player will break that line. But it's not a totally one-sided fight. Tophat tried to hold at Mongliev!! and even there it took two weeks hard fighting to destroy his army.

Go 20 hexes east of Smolansk and the Russian gets two more weeks to reinforce and dig in. The German is that much further from the railhead.

Might allow the german to do some funny things though. Allow the minor allies to occupy the evacuated AGS area with the rest of AGS headed straight to Moscow.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: moses

I wonder what would happen if a Russian player just flat out ran to his final defence line from turn 1. Move everything to a line 3 hexes in front of Moscow and dig in.

Bad idea. There's far better defensive terrain west of here along the Dvina-Smolensk landbridge-Dnepr area. You've got to make the German work for Smolensk, not just give it away.

I'm going to fight hard here every time and make the German pay for the place in blood. If you can delay things here into, say, late August, that chews up a lot of time and doesn't leave the German with many clear turns to grab the big prize.

None of the Soviet players I've seen thus far have quite figured out how to really turn this area into a grind for the German, however. But it can be done.