Physical Only ?

[JiminyJickers]

I am very interested in this game and would love to be able to buy it without the physical manuals and things. Please won't you let me do this?

I read all my manuals on my tablet and haven't wasted paper printing off manuals since then.

I don't think shipping it to some address in the states and hoping it doesn't get delivered, and hoping someone else doesn't open the box and use my licence is a good idea at all.

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: Rick
That sounds like a pretty creative solution and to piggy back on that, you might want to try and find a physical address for Matrix games, and have it shipped to them, I believe they have addresses in at least a couple of US locations.

No need to actively try to annoy people, is there?
What I intend to do (assuming Matrix doesn't release a DD), is ally myself with a friend of mine in the US.
He gets the package, mails the DVD to me, and if he so chooses he can sell the books on eBay and keep whatever profits he can get. Otherwise he can chuck them.
I'd love to have the books, but not at an additional $95 in shipping, tariffs and VAT.
That would be asinine.

[DBeves]

Well no - the reasonable solution is for matrix to offer a digital only option. Same price just the option to decline a physical copy. Seriously Matrix - WTF is the problem with that ?

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well no - the reasonable solution is for matrix to offer a digital only option. Same price just the option to decline a physical copy. Seriously Matrix - WTF is the problem with that ?

Couldn't agree more. If I have to, I'll go through the whole US address circus, but I'd rather not have to.
What I can't figure out is this:
Erik has stated (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Matrix has had to reduce the profit margin in order to include the books.
Looking at the various threads, there seems to be a number of people who are quite willing to increase that profit-margin by paying the same for the product without the books.
Granted, my knowledge of the software world is limited indeed, but I can't possibly imagine that it'll cost more to generate a new software license than printing a new set of books.
So from where I'm sitting, Matrix has a number of people here screaming "please take my money" and replies "No. Shan't"

It completely eludes me...

And if the reason for the forced book-buy is due to a fear of getting stuck with a ton of un-sold merchandise, here's my offer:
I will pay full price for the game, voluntarily forfeiting the books and DVD. Matrix can then destroy the DVD to avoid multiple keys. After that Matrix is free to give away the books to any WIF fan who is willing to pay for the shipping.
I get to play WIF without paying exorbitant fees, the WIF fan gets his coveted books for a sweet price, and Matrix gets their money and has no surplus books to store.

[Dorb]

I think when you look at the price of Command:Modern Air Navel Operations at $94.99 with small paperback manual and you look at this with 3 hardbound full size books for $99.99 - "Nuff said"

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well no - the reasonable solution is for matrix to offer a digital only option. Same price just the option to decline a physical copy. Seriously Matrix - WTF is the problem with that ?

They can't? Licensing restrictions? They've all but said it. So quit whining. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

I have to wait several months before I can get it. Cest la vie.

[BlackStarWizard]

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well no - the reasonable solution is for matrix to offer a digital only option. Same price just the option to decline a physical copy. Seriously Matrix - WTF is the problem with that ?

Couldn't agree more. If I have to, I'll go through the whole US address circus, but I'd rather not have to.
What I can't figure out is this:
Erik has stated (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Matrix has had to reduce the profit margin in order to include the books.
Looking at the various threads, there seems to be a number of people who are quite willing to increase that profit-margin by paying the same for the product without the books.
Granted, my knowledge of the software world is limited indeed, but I can't possibly imagine that it'll cost more to generate a new software license than printing a new set of books.
So from where I'm sitting, Matrix has a number of people here screaming "please take my money" and replies "No. Shan't"

It completely eludes me...

And if the reason for the forced book-buy is due to a fear of getting stuck with a ton of un-sold merchandise, here's my offer:
I will pay full price for the game, voluntarily forfeiting the books and DVD. Matrix can then destroy the DVD to avoid multiple keys. After that Matrix is free to give away the books to any WIF fan who is willing to pay for the shipping.
I get to play WIF without paying exorbitant fees, the WIF fan gets his coveted books for a sweet price, and Matrix gets their money and has no surplus books to store.

No, the reasonable thing is for the digital only option to be the full price minus the cost of printing the 750 pages of manuals.

As for surplus books, I would certainly hope (and assume) that they print those massive manuals on demand, having no way of knowing what kind of amounts they'd sell of such an expensive product. And this being 2013. Same with the huge map of course.

Don't get me wrong - I think the price and content is great for someone wanting a luxury/collector's edition, but it's a complete turnoff for someone who just wants to play and enjoy the game. And the developers and publishers will lose sales and money beause of this.

[Dorb]

Sell the books on ebay - someone will buy.

[bairdlander2]

ORIGINAL: Dorb

I think when you look at the price of Command:Modern Air Navel Operations at $94.99 with small paperback manual and you look at this with 3 hardbound full size books for $99.99 - "Nuff said"

Actually price is $111.99 cdn and with shipping $162.

[JiminyJickers]

ORIGINAL: Dorb

I think when you look at the price of Command:Modern Air Navel Operations at $94.99 with small paperback manual and you look at this with 3 hardbound full size books for $99.99 - "Nuff said"

You are comparing a physical version with a physical version (excluding shipping), I'm confused.

The point of this thread is that we don't want the physical version. Don't care if it was 10 printed manuals made with love and care. I just want the pdf versions, no shipping involved.

[JiminyJickers]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well no - the reasonable solution is for matrix to offer a digital only option. Same price just the option to decline a physical copy. Seriously Matrix - WTF is the problem with that ?

They can't? Licensing restrictions? They've all but said it. So quit whining. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

I have to wait several months before I can get it. Cest la vie.

Can you please point us at where they mention the licencing restriction?

The only thing I have seen mentioned is:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
... We honestly feel the hardbound manuals are a key part of the game - adding them in actually decreases our margin per copy as we did not increase the planned price once we made the decision to print the manuals at this quality level, but we feel that they are necessary to the game. ...

Well, I don't see how a hardbound manual is necessary to anything, given that the pdf versions are available.

I'll quit whining/complainging/asking, whatever anyone wants to call it, when they give a clear answer that doesn't boggle the mind about why they are doing this.

[Mynok]

All but said it? Do you read English? It's an inference and not a hard one to get.

Why else would they not have digital only?

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

All but said it? Do you read English? It's an inference and not a hard one to get.

Why else would they not have digital only?

That's kinda what we're trying to find out. [:)]

[aspqrz02]

IF there WERE licensing restrictions and, despite what you claim to be able to infer, there are currently NO actual statements saying so, that mandated producing hardbound books for each copy of the game to be sold, I would be amazed and astounded, not to mention completely flabbergasted, to find that said licensing restrictions DEMANDED that the purchaser ave no choice but to accept shipping of the physical copies.

What a sensible company would do, if, indeed, they are required by contract to produce physical manuals and include them in the sale price, would be, in this case, given the large number of potential customers who are turned off by the huge shipping and customs imposts, to allow them to pay for the whole thing, including the printed manuals, and then choose 'no shipping' on the understanding that the disks and books would then be destroyed in the warehouse. You could even charge a nominal fee - say the $9 that shipping inside the US seems to be - to cover the cost of destruction of the books/disks and you'd get many people happy to save $50+ on shipping and ghu knows how much additional for customs etc.

That would seem to cover all bases ... if not, you could use my other suggestion from another locked thread and get the same effect. I mean, lets get real, there's no way they can force you not to send a parcel to any address you please, is there?

The lame and completely ridiculous excuses (no, I don't accept that they're 'justifications') that they have given show they really don't get it. So, as we say in Oz, don't encourage the b******s [;)]

Phil

[JiminyJickers]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

All but said it? Do you read English? It's an inference and not a hard one to get.

I can read, speak, and write English quite well, but nothing can be inferred from the total lack of information given thus far. If you have seen a statement that does infer a license agreement, please point it out. I'm genuinely interested in seeing this, not trying to be confrontational.

Why else would they not have digital only?

This is exactly what I would like to know and is the point of the thread. It boggles my mind that people are begging to buy a digital only product but they are refusing to sell it, even though you get the digital version when buying the physical one. Just doesn't make any sense.

Hopefully we will get a proper answer soon and lay this, what seems madness, to rest.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

ORIGINAL: Mynok

All but said it? Do you read English? It's an inference and not a hard one to get.

I can read, speak, and write English quite well, but nothing can be inferred from the total lack of information given thus far. If you have seen a statement that does infer a license agreement, please point it out. I'm genuinely interested in seeing this, not trying to be confrontational.

Why else would they not have digital only?

This is exactly what I would like to know and is the point of the thread. It boggles my mind that people are begging to buy a digital only product but they are refusing to sell it, even though you get the digital version when buying the physical one. Just doesn't make any sense.

Hopefully we will get a proper answer soon and lay this, what seems madness, to rest.

The proper answer is in this very thread.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We looked at it this way - this is primarily a game for tabletop WIF players. It is also an awesome computer wargame just as it is an awesome tabletop wargame, but without an AI in the initial release, that's a hard hill for many primarily computer wargamers to climb, who are used to AI releases. The WIF community, as a primarily tabletop community, is also used to getting a good physical package for their money. The work that went into WIF development and keeping it faithful to the tabletop game was beyond anything we've ever done before. Development-wise, this is about ten normal games rolled into one.

So our first thought was how to do justice to this game and give the WIF community something special. The hard-bound volumes, the first hard-bound large full color volumes Matrix Games has ever released, are the first part. The biggest wargame map possibly ever printed is the second part. We feel those are a key part of doing this release right. Removing the hard-bound volumes, even though they are costly to print, would not have resulted in a significantly reduced price due to the time that this was in development. By doing this we actually reduced our profit margin per unit as the planned price point has always been in this range. We decided to add in the manuals and the map pack to make it the best release possible.

Regards,

- Erik

But if it's not the answer you want............................................. oh well.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

....

But if it's not the answer you want............................................. oh well.

+1

rick

[bairdlander2]

Perhaps a compromise would be to have made the books optional.The giant map is optional,so why not the books?That way the WIF tabletop players that this game was released for could have their books?

[jzz001]

Matrix, you are not selling the computer wargame, you are just selling books here. so bye bye WIF.

[aspqrz02]

So, let's put this in perspective ...

a) Matrix's pre-release sales assessment was, allegedly, that ONLY owners of the boardgame would ever want to get CWiF

b) That they'd automatically want yet another print copy of the rules, despite already having them

c) That they'd want (b) DESPITE potentially HUGE shipping costs and customs duties for non-US orders even so

... I can almost believe that. Almost, even though (b) is implausible in the light of (c), which beggars belief

What I cannot believe is that

d) Matrix, on finding that there are people who will buy a download only version of the game, and buy it willingly, FOR THE SAME PRICE AS THE PHYSICAL COPY

and

e) Consider it an excellent bargain to avoid excessive shipping and customs fees

and yet MATRIX WON'T EVEN CONSIDER TAKING THEIR MONEY.

From a market segment their pre-release research allegedly didn't even suspect existed.

They are *rejecting* the chance of additional profits ... which makes no sense in any universe that I am aware of.

YMMV [;)]

Phil