GD1938 Game 25 old VC

[cpdeyoung]

The U-boat threat is very real, and they can do a great deal of harm.

What is happening here is due to the destruction of the Italian navy, which has freed so very many subs and destroyers for ASW in the Atlantic. The U-boats lose their concealment when there are so many searchers. There are multiple search and interdiction lines which make supplying U-boats impossible. They are weak as minnows when found.

The Royal Navy also has a very significant carrier force loaded for ASW which can do huge harm to stacks of subs. Aircraft are probably the greatest enemy of U-boats.

[RufusTFirefly]

Turn 16:

This is what naval warfare at the coast of Norway is like. Royal Navy has blocked the way for German subs towards the North Atlantic Seas. The image shows the hunting for the last remaining German wolfpack. Some others had already been destroyed in previous attacks this turn.
Due to the very effecitve anti-sub warfare of Royal Navy the German subs have become more or less useless. Without any chance for the subs to reach their destinations somewhere in the Atlantic the Brits have successfully secured their supply lines.

[tortugapower]

With the recent destruction of the German submarine network, the Russians feel content in their position of peace. It has given Stalin and his comrades time to make friends across the world...

Brazil was the first to welcome our representatives. Several documented motorcycle drives through the countryside have shown the people the troubles other ideologies, and we have welcomed this change of government as the first step of progression toward making the world a better place.



Perhaps if the other great nations would stand down from all the bloodshed, we could all unite in one great communist hug.

[cpdeyoung]

Вы большая крыса

FDR

[tortugapower]

(Just curious Chuck, would you say that you were *guaranteed* to take Brazil next turn? I gambled on this hypothesis.)

[cpdeyoung]

I was at 973 at the end of last turn - so

YES!

[tortugapower]

If my discord attempt had worked, that would have been 950... 75% chance; yeah that's almost it.

I was at ~900 by the end of my turn, and when I saw you were still in the lead: "well, here goes nothing".

[edit: 1939, April, for future reference]

[cpdeyoung]

3 April 1939

The U-boats were content to raid from their home waters so we killed less of them, but we also knocked off 3 DD2.

Great Britain and France struck back at Germany and Italy. An airstrike gave us a chance to compare aircraft performance. We lost 24 Hurricane1s to 20 Bf109Ds, but our newer Spitfires are coming into action which should improve performance.

The USA was surprised and disappointed to have the USSR intervene in the western hemisphere.

China continues to stiffen her defense with armor.

[cpdeyoung]

1 May 1939

Great Britain have followed Winston Churchill's suggestion-invitation and merged much of their government and militaries. A redoubt is forming as the Axis is exhibiting significant strength.

[cpdeyoung]

29 May 1939

After causing heavy casualties on attacking Fascists the Czechs fought hard to capture Vienna.

[cpdeyoung]

29 May 1939

The British in France found the German stacks a very hard nut to crack.

The Royal Navy sailed right up to Hamburg and attacked the cargo ships at anchor. 10 CgM and 3 CgL were sunk.

[tortugapower]

(By the way, I meant to say this earlier but the forums were down for me yesterday, but... it will give the error for me about clearing my log or something. I reinstalled the game, and I will probably need to do it one more time -- swapping HDs in and out -- but I will try to do this on turns where nothing is happening anyway, so there is nothing to be suspicious of).

[cpdeyoung]

26 June 1939

The Czechs are fighting very well indeed, even heroically. The following map includes some concentrations of disorganized troops which no longer have unit cohesion (so don't trust everything you see).

[cpdeyoung]

26 June 1939

Sea control requires constant patrolling and combat wherever found.

[RufusTFirefly]

Hello guys,

sorry to say but I think I should give up.

I have the feeling I am fighting more against a ridiculous setting than against my opponents. Czechia is full of units. It is hardly possible to gain any terrain. Even worse the Czechian soldiers count as French and fight well. My Italiens fight poorly as the game setting makes them to be weak in combat. Italiens might have been not as good soldiers as the French, Brits or Germans. But far worse than the Czechian ones? Chuck has posted a combat result of the assault on Vienna (post from Jan15th, see above). Czechs had much more forces for attack than I had for defence. So this result makes sense. But the few Italien forces are the result of a lost battle right before when I tried to beat the Czechs, attacking with slightly more units than the defenders had. But my losses were far higher and so the Italiens could not stand the the counterattack. Axis lost Vienna and a as sideeffect Germany suffers severe loss of its air force.

Before WWII started Czechia had been taken by Germany without a single shot. In this scenario Axis has to fight for it. Thats ok. But Czechia has so many units that it could be regarded as a major power. Germany cannt effort to fight against Czechia with lots of units. France has become so strong that for a lot of turns no advance was possible. And now even air power of France/ Britain has become so strong that any preparation of attacks by air raids has no significant effect. So any German unit is needed at the western front. But without supporting the combined forces of Italiens, Austrians (that count as poorly fighting Italiens and are few in number) and the Romanians the Czechs would defeat my forces. So I have to send more German units to Czechia while Western Allies have already become too strong to achieve any success in the fight for France.

Germany is already lost. In 1939! And even in a very fair game where Chuck does not bring USA to war and Sovjets are keeping peace. If SU would attack they would be able to march straight on Berlin. My defence line wont hold. Reinforcements are eaten up by French attacks and Britain has nearly wiped out Hamburg and weakend my production capacity.

I have to admit that I am tired of trying to find a way to make it to late war years. I wont play Axis any more. It does not make sense in this scenario.

[RufusTFirefly]

An illustration to show why it doesnt make sense to play Axis:
This turn I attacked Vienna again. The second attempt was successful, but the price was high. (Please note that attacks were performed as three side assault.)

[cpdeyoung]

@Rufus,

As always you have been a pleasure to play against, but I have shared your frustration as defenders continuously defied your Axis forces.

You deserve a much better situation than you found yourself in. Please bring your formidable talents to one of the new games forming up. I would be happy to fight at your side, or to oppose you.

@TortugaPower,

What a trooper! I am so sorry that the game turned out to be an exercise in production and training for you. You deserved much better also and I hope to play against, or with, you in a future game.

@Rufus, and TortugaPower,

I would be willing to shuffle roles in this game if both of you were interested. I would take the Axis. I did not realize that playing the Axis in this format would be so challenging. The coordination the Western Allies can achieve is daunting. Maybe I could learn from what happened to Rufus, and maybe I would just run into the "Mega-Minor" syndrome, but I would be willing to try.

Thank you both for a well fought game in a flawed format.

Chuck

[RufusTFirefly]

I have to say that I am not happy with the situation.

Tortugapower has played many turns in preparation for a war. Now it looks like it was in vain. I agree with Chuck that this is not how it should be.

Chuck wanted to see some late war SFTs, but we are still at 1939. Me too thinks it would be interesting to develop the tech levels and deploy some late war units.

Changing sides is one option.

Here is another one, that is a bit off of regular gameplay. Axis retreats to the eastern banks of river Rhine and France/ GB and Axis agree in cease fire. Axis would continue fighting for Czechia (I cannt allow French units to stay so close to Berlin). Axis will move its armies eastwards and attack SU. Once one of three cities (Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow) falls, cease fire in the west would end. And USA might join war as well.
The idea behind this is that Tortugapower gets the chance to fight. As Axis might be superior in the early years, the west would join the war again before SU is defeated. Axis would have to fight a two front war and would have to switch from offensive to defence in the east. This would enable Tortugapower to strike back, play an offensive role as well (and make Axis pay). Surely Axis would loose while fighting against western powers and SU at the same time. But this is ok. We would see some late war battles. And this is what we wanted to see.

Japan and China might continue fighting their war as before.

[cpdeyoung]

That would be fine with me. It would give Barbarossa a chance.

Chuck

[tortugapower]

Well, well, well... very interesting discussion. First of all, you both have been patient and true gentlemen about this game so far. I think it would be great if we can find a way to fight through. I will leave a number of alternatives, I'm going to throw everything at a wall and just see what sticks...

(Already proposed)

#1 What rufus proposed: Axis retreats to about original Western border and we have Barbarossa with Allied coming in to rejoin. This solution is elegant for its simplicity, but I feel it unfavorably dooms the Axis.

#2 Chuck, did you mean switch places in the game as it is right now, or restart the game with you as the Axis? Probably the latter?

(Or more bizarre choices...)

#3 USA is "permanently" neutral. If USA were never to enter the war, do either of you think the Axis could ring out a victory? Or does the current situation already preclude any hope for the Axis. (We can revise later if Axis tilt the balance heavily in their favor)

#4 We cede all non-French European holdings to the Germans. The Czech cease resistance and allow themselves to be conquered.

#5 We call a temporary armistice. The Axis and Allies agree to a peace treaty, which the Axis will again violate when they have prepared better (I'm not sure this will help though, considering how defense-oriented this game tends to be, and giving the Allies time to maximally-concentrate their defense).

Many of these could be joined together.

#6 I'm going to mention one last option. It's not my favorite, but it was something I have given thought to, and it's not *too* far from a historical possibility. The USSR can enter the war on the same side as the Axis temporarily, assisting the Axis to gain an adequate land foothold, and then we can see how this goes and discuss an Axis (or Soviet) betrayal later on. I think Barbarossa is the main draw of the Russian side, but hopefully that can still happen later.


I'm happy to "engineer" the game diplomacy in order to balance the teams, swinging different nations to different factions to keep a relative balance.

I'm also okay if the series has really no hope and we just want to begin a new game. At least I have learned a lot about this scenario.