
[ May 21, 2001: Message edited by: sven ]
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
Mikimoto I am not forgetting Ivan, but it is just about universally accepted that he got Armor Tactics 101 completed by about mid '43.Originally posted by Mikimoto:
Hello.
1. IMHO the germans had some good ideas about how to use tanks. Assault guns and self propelled tank destroyers were stop-gap measures. They tested and failed like other countries. The Light Divisions were a big failure. The early panzer division performed well, but had a poor complement of infantry and too much tanks. The early motorized divisions evolutioned to panzergrenadier, etc... and their tanks were not invincible. Actually, until the Tiger and panther appears, the russians and allied are better (if only some models). It wonders me how the panzer III last so longer been the mainstay of the armored divisions. And the panzer IV has only two virtues: high mechanical reliability and fine gun (75, long 43/48). Well, Tigers and Panthers were great. Perhaps not so great like I feel...
2. The US had, initially, bad tank doctrine. With experience they were able to upgrade the performance of the armoured divisions. The organization of combat commands are one of the great successes of WWII. US tanks were outgunned by the germans, all along the war. I think in may 45 there were only 25/30% of 76mm shermans. But the sherman (75) fighted very well against pzIV's and Stugs. Light tanks were useful in cavalry and pursuit missions. And tactics, support and flanking gained the day against those few panthers and tigers they defeated.
3. Sometimes I feel that we gamers forget the great success of the Soviet armoured formations. Well, the initial doctrine was masses of tanks supporting infantry. When tanks fighted alone in the first two years, were isolated and masacred. They returned to earlier doctrines in 42/43. They retained the infantry support tanks in the form of the independent tank brigades. But new tank and mechanized corps (actually divisions) began their long journey to success. The soviet mechanized corpos was perhaps the best armour unit of worl war II.
Originally posted by Charles_22:
The Americans only attacked Germany to capture the V2s, Tigers, ME262s so they could have them to fend off the USSR. The USSR counterattacked Gerry to get the same equipment to fend off the USA. See? Germany was merely a invention depot for the fighting of future wars. Hitler knew this, so he started attacking other people to use their stuff, against those that would use his stuff. The French, were the most brilliant of them all, as they saw that taking Germany in WWI would assure them of using German equipment to stop an imminent English invasion of France (and it worked for 20 years), and then they were suckered into letting the Brits come across to defend against the Germans who were set on stopping the future US/USSR war. In reality all the fighting wasn't about ruling the country you conquered, but about using that place's permission to use their stuff to fight future wars against someone else :rolleyes:
?????????????????????????????????????????????Originally posted by Charles_22:
As Mikimoto said, and also the concept of neutrality. Hitler had tried to work that concept for years with some success by gaining control of future countries without firing a shot, however as the concept had run it's course, and other countries devised an effective counter-neutrality system, with desperate measures he invaded the country with perhaps the cutting edge in the neutrality concept.
[ May 21, 2001: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]
The Germans sure were put upon by Polish neutrality. I mean after all ask Uncle Adolph and he would have told you Poland attacked Germany. Germany was just trying to defend itself, but the Anglo/French alliance had to support those Polish aggressors.(sigh)Originally posted by Charles_22:
That is one of the problems with having both effective neutrality concepts and effective cheese; somebody is always looking to get at them. Much to Hitler's dismay, he found that the Dutch neutrality concept wasn't good enough either, or at least not enough to overcome the Allies forgiving him for Poland. In essence, the war for neutrality was lost when Poland was attacked, he was too overconfident firstly in German neutrality concepts, and later in the Dutch ones which persuaded him to attack. To this day, many Germans have questioned whether the Swiss neutrality concepts might have saved the day, and why Hitler didn't attack there as well.
BTW, the whole reason Hitler held the panzers back from getting at Dunkirk, so long, was that it was the first attempt to employ Dutch neutrality concepts, so overconfident was he in it's effectiveness. :rolleyes:
The reason was not that terrible chemical weapon, the Emmental cheese, no, no.Originally posted by murx:
Why Germany didn't invade Swiss ?
Simple & easy, there was no army group small enough to do the task
murx