TM, RA, and BTS Re-Write

[Cavalry Corp]

John You may like to see my post in Modding about mines as I used your R8.0 which has the same settings.

[John 3rd]

Hey Cavalry!

Haven't done much Forum time since life is pretty crazy with a Senior and Sophomore in High School.

I mentioned elsewhere that I recently bought Jordan's Warships After London book. It is the companion to Warships After Washington. He now covers the entire Treaty Period from 1922 to 1941. EXCELLENT books! That directly covers Michael and I's Mod work.

The recent work throws out some interesting thoughts that I am seriously thinking about implementing into the BTS Family. It isn't much but I like the ideas:

Japan
The Japanese seriously considered evolving the Aoba and Furutaka-Classes into CLs using the 6.1" guns seen on the original Mogami-Class. Since we have already done that, I felt a bit vindicated but what caught my eye was that the Japanese wanted to DOUBLE their Long Lance capability. LIKE THAT! Think we'll do it.

America
With the tandem of Reeves and Moffat in charge of the Fleet, they placed the clause in the London Treaty that up to 25% of cruiser construction could be Flying Deck Cruisers. The two of them were taken with the hybrid Cruiser--Carriers. We reflect that in the Mods by stating that the Big Three fleets agree to each build two of these experiments. The pair from Great Britain are given to New Zealand and Australia, while the Japanese build their G.6 variant, and, finally, the US builds the 1930 design that is a proto-Brooklyn spliced with a CVL. Adm Reeves wanted to build 4-6 of these in 1930. Am thinking that he gets his wish and the Navy commits to the 'free' pair and an additional set named Anacostia and Patuxent (will change the AO names that come in during 1944). NOTHING is taken away, these are a straight add-on to the USN.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

John, since you are cleaning up, TOE# 2719, 2720, and 2721 have improper delay dates they are set as 4207, 4305, and 4305.
They all need to be complete 6 digit dates, so 420701, 430501 and 430502.
As they are they update 4207 days and 4305 days after the scenario start.

FIXED

[Cavalry Corp]

John, Yes interesting stuff. In my mod I used some ships that were scrapped in the story that they were under completion when the treaty starts - both sides. Yeils more BB and BC at the start.

I plan to do an alternate scn 41 where the classes completed as BB and BC are completes as such and Dec 41 sees smaller
and lighter carriers ...

[Cavalry Corp]

John, in your game you have a base number 600 which is called Sydney island. In my game I seem to have inadvertently created a second base in the same hex for the Dutch. The problem is this base cannot be conquered or occupied - I have tried. Does this have any bearing on the matter of your Sydney island base. I'm not sure why it's there at all actually. Can you please advise. I have also tried deleting the base but the game is in progress and although the update says it's OK the base is still there on the map. Any ideas?

[John 3rd]

Will check that out. Thanks for the head's up!

[Cavalry Corp]

BTW I think that issue was sorted as yours uses a correct base number - I used one of the illegal numbers. Would you like my scn for your web page as its based on your RA 8.0

[John 3rd]

Am now in June 1943 of Paul and I's match with BTSL Scenario 60.

Am doing some polishing and cleaning up of stupid mistakes/errors in the Mod.

Example 1: BC Kasuga comes in mid-43 but is set for the late-1942 upgrade. Ooops. Wrong slot!
Example 2: CV Tokachi--former CAV Tokachi--comes in with a Center 25MM mount but NO AMMO. Ooops again...

Asked Paul if their are any mistakes like this on the other side to work on.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Cavalry Corp

BTW I think that issue was sorted as yours uses a correct base number - I used one of the illegal numbers. Would you like my scn for your web page as its based on your RA 8.0

ILLEGAL NUMBERS = BAD BOY Sir!

[Cavalry Corp]

Yes indeed the dreaded slot numbers - I am also doing some tidy up there are always odd things.

[John 3rd]

Been doing some odds-and-ends work on the Mods and have updated the descriptions of two of the files. Am pasting them here so you might see:

Between the Storms (12/20/17)
ALTNAV 1922-1937

The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.

The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:

1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).

2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown-Class CV. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.

3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.

The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.

2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.

3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington Treaty BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.

American Admiral’s Moffat and Reeves argue—and win—for the allowance of up to 25% of cruiser construction to be of the Flightdeck Cruiser variety. This is a historical accuracy; however, THIS reality allows for a further pair of Flightdeck Cruisers to be built. Japan begins with two, NZ one, Aust one, and the USN has FOUR (Charlotte, Jacksonville, Anacostia, and Patuxent).

***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami-Class as 6” CLs.


Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Battleship Question and Decision
Staying historical the Japanese decide to build the super-battleships of the Yamato-Class. All four are represented in this Mod. Shinano and Aki are built as BBs and they will use BUCKETS of shipyard points but they are Japan's for the asking.

Command Cruisers
In the 3rd Circle Plan a new class of heavy cruiser is initiated. The proposed Tone-Class floatplane CA is discarded for a balanced, more capable cruiser. These large cruisers are better called command cruisers. The Niitaka-Class grows to over 15,000 tons and carries 4x3 8" guns, heavy torpedo armament, impressive secondaries, and strong floatplane complements. These fast, rugged cruisers are planned to be a six-ship class. The initial two are complete at war's start, a second pair coming in late-1942, and a final pair in 1944.


The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan stopping the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class Battleships, adding two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 and adds the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class BB back into building que. Despite Yamamoto's arguments this allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.

The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its land-based successor the M3. These airframes are ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Sam (no Jack), while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.

On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.

The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers continue to be accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.

Allied Response
It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the Dutch actually complete their planned naval force of 5 CL and 12 DD for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases in 1938 is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.

Following the Destroyer-for-Bases deal in September 1940, President Franklin Roosevelt offers the Dutch government in the East Indies if they could use the old BB’s Texas and New York. The offer underscores the seriousness of the Japanese build-up. It is meant as a deterrent and the Dutch gladly agree. Freshly renamed Prins Hendrik and Prins Willem, these BB join several other new Dutch ships to constitute a real threat to the coming Japanese attack.

As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The historical Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The CLV Anacostia TF).

In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier and her escorts are just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. A Gurkha Brigade is rushed into Singapore along with supplies and two dozen crated Hurricane Fighters. Is it too little, too late?

How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?
Scenario Notes

In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.

Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.

If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.

[John 3rd]

This is the refreshed AltHist Ship additions/Changes:

EDIT: The stupid program mashed the differing Heavy vs. Lie variants of the Mods into the same lines. Will correct this later on so it makes better sense.

Additional/Changed Japanese Ships built:

Washington Treaty Years (1922-1930)
CV Amagi instead of CV Kaga
CVL Ryukaku
CVE Ibuki
BB Tosa
BC Ishitaka
LBC Chichibu
CA Yoshino, Miyako, Chishima, and Seiki (Myoko-Class)
CL Minase, Otonase, and Ayase
DD +4 Minekaze-Class
SS +3 ML SS and +4 I-Boats

The Treaty comes a year later than historical allowing for Mutsu to be completed without a fight as well as bringing Tosa to completion. Japan gains the 70% Ratio allowing for Ishitaka, Chichibu, and Ryukaku. The construction of four follow-on Myoko-Class CA comes PRIOR to the London Conference.

Circle One Plan (1930)
CA Mogami and Mikuma (8”)
CA Kako, Aoba, Furutaka, and Kinugasa down-gunned from 8” to 6” CLs
CL Suzuyu and Kumano (6”)
CAV Kushiro and Tokachi
CVL Karasu
+2 DD Shiratsuyu-Class

London goes slightly better for Japan. The Flightdeck Cruiser idea is allowed to occur and Japan abuses the Treaty by building Kushiro and Tokachi claiming a lower tonnage then what they actually possess. CVL Karasu builds on Ryukaku and fills out remaining Japanese carrier tonnage.

Circle Two Plan (1934)
CV Hiryu and Soryu as Hiryu-Class
CL Tone and Chikuma (6”)
CS Mizuho added as 3rd Chitose-Class CS
+2 DD Asashio-Class

Japan KNOWS it is leaving the Treaty system so Soryu and Hiryu are built as true sisters.

Final Japanese Building Plans
Between the Storms—HEAVY Between the Storms--Lite

Circle Three Plan (1937)
CV Shokaku and Zuikaku CV Shokaku and Zuikaku
CS Nisshin built as CVL CS Nisshin built as CVL
BB Yamato and Musashi BB 2 Owari-Class
LBC 2 Fuji-Class BC 2 B-65-Class

DD +3 Kagero-Class (not as dummy Yamato-Class Decoys)
No Katori-Class Training Cruisers (old CLs used instead)

Circle Four Plan (1940)
2 Shokaku-Class 2 Shokaku-Class
BB Shinano and Aki BC 2 B-65
LBC 2 Fuji-Class CA 2 Niitaka-Class

New Tokoro-Class CL (3x3 6”) replacing Agano-Class (3x2 6”)
No Taiho-Class CV

Circle Five Plan (1941)
CV 4 Shokaku-Kai CV 4 Shokaku-Kai
CVL 3 Aso-Class (Tokoro Conversions) CVL 3 Aso-Class (Tokoro Conversions)
LBC 2 Fuji-Class BB 2 Owari-Class
CA 2 Niitaka-Class


Additional/Changed Allied Ships to December 7, 1941

United States
CV Wasp (Yorktown-Class)
CVL King’s Mountain
CVE Langley and Eli
CLV Charlotte, Jacksonville, Anacostia, and Patuxent
BB Washington (Colorado-Class)
BC Constellation (Lexington-Class)
LBC Chesapeake
CA Rome and Burlington
DD +4 Mahan and +4 Farragut-Class
SS +3 Flying Fish-Class, +1 Argonaut-Class, and +1 Narwhal-Class

Following Admiral Platt and Captain Reeves fervent desires, the USN builds its two CLV (authorized under the London Treaty) AND two more. LOTS of other construction added and in the Fleet by 1941.

United Kingdom
BC Renown
CLAA Dido and Argonaut
DD +4 DD
SS +2 T-Class

Netherland East Indies
BB Prins Hendrik and Prins Willem
CL Eendract and Van Heemskerck
DD +4 DD
SS +3 SS

The Dutch arguably gain the most in this scenario. The Japanese increased build-up prods the Dutch to get construction of the Eendract, Van Heemskerck, Batch-3 DDs, and several more SS completed BEFORE the German Invasion. After the Destroyer-for-Bases Deal, Franklin Roosevelts turns—thru Lend-Lease—to the Dutch and offers them the elderly BB’s Texas and New York. The Dutch accept and the battleships are transferred in early-41. Though needing more crew and carrying American ‘volunteers,’ these old battleships give the Dutch some serious teeth.

Should be noted that these additions were all Real Life thoughts and topics prior to Dec 7th.


France
CL Jean de Vienne
DD +3 Le Hardi-Class
SS +4 (2 Pascal-Class and 2 Surcouf-Class)

The French also gain a powerful Battlecruiser TF in Late Spring 1942 with Strasbourg, Dunkerque, CA Algerie, CL Lamotte-Picquet, 3 DD, and 3 SS.

Australia
CAV Melbourne
DD +4 Admiralty S-Class
SS +2 T-Class

New Zealand
CAV Wellington
DD +2 Admiralty S-Class

Great Britain did not want the CAV concept but still built their pair since they were Treaty allowed. In 1939, they are transferred to the Dominions (with some escorts) to buttress their positions in the Pacific.

[John 3rd]

Will upload the newest versions to the BTS website soon. If anyone wants them early, PM me with your email and I'll send them over to you.

[Jo van der Pluym]

Netherland East Indies
BB Prins Hendrik and Prins Willem
CL Eendract and Van Heemskerck
DD +4 DD
SS +3 SS

The Dutch arguably gain the most in this scenario. The Japanese increased build-up prods the Dutch to get construction of the Eendract, Van Heemskerck, Batch-3 DDs, and several more SS completed BEFORE the German Invasion. After the Destroyer-for-Bases Deal, Franklin Roosevelts turns—thru Lend-Lease—to the Dutch and offers them the elderly BB’s Texas and New York. The Dutch accept and the battleships are transferred in early-41. Though needing more crew and carrying American ‘volunteers,’ these old battleships give the Dutch some serious teeth.

Should be noted that these additions were all Real Life thoughts and topics prior to Dec 7th.

Hello John 3rd

You made a spelling mistake with the name of the CL Eendract. In Dutch it is CL Eendracht. (In English Unity.)

[John 3rd]

Thank You Sir. Will correct.

[Falken]

Thanks John for keeping these mods up to date. Waiting to see what the new version will bring.

So.. very sorry for the next question. I used to know this, and i'm sure its somewhere in the posts above, but for some reason, just can't see it.

Ok.. the Dumb question of the day... What is the difference again between Heavy and Lite versions. I thought the Lite was additional carriers vs BBs, but can't seem to see that in your notes above. The description on the site seems to be almost identical.

Thanks John... and if it simply above, let me know

Last thing, would be amazing if you could add BigB's China to your scenarios. Luv BigB, but i'm sure it would be too much work, but the combination would be amazing. Haven't seen Brian on the site lately, and his own website seems to be quiet. I hope he's doing ok...

[John 3rd]

Hey Sir!

Yep. I agree that adding Brian's work would be fantastic.

The difference between Lite and Heavy is in BB and Capital Ship construction.

HEAVY: 4 Yamato-Class and 6 Fuji-Class Light BC (2x2 14" Guns)
LITE: 4 16" Owari-Class BB, 2 B-65 Battlecruisers, and then 6 Niitaka-Class CA

The conundrum of prioritizing the Naval Yard Points is easier with Lite. Those Yamato's are expensive to build...

[Pharnakes]

Will upload the newest versions to the BTS website soon. If anyone wants them early, PM me with your email and I'll send them over to you.

Where is the BTS website? Or do you mean the BTS page on the website in your signature? That version seems to be a couple of years old, so I'd love a more updated one if available, thanks.

[bigred]

Am now in June 1943 of Paul and I's match with BTSL Scenario 60.

Am doing some polishing and cleaning up of stupid mistakes/errors in the Mod.

Example 1: BC Kasuga comes in mid-43 but is set for the late-1942 upgrade. Ooops. Wrong slot!
Example 2: CV Tokachi--former CAV Tokachi--comes in with a Center 25MM mount but NO AMMO. Ooops again...

Asked Paul if their are any mistakes like this on the other side to work on.

have not seen the problem on allied side so far nov43.

[bigred]

Japanese Carriers
Fleet Carrier

The Japanese do not build Taiho or convert Shinano. There are no Unryu-Class CV either. Continuing the Japanese philosophy of 'using a few to conquer many' the Mods elect to go with a slightly improved Shokaku Kai-Class of Fleet CV. A total of six of them are ordered and built: 2 in late-42, 2 in 44, and 2 in 45. Here is a screenshot from the Editor of the class:






These ships reflect the immediate lessons learned in the construction of the original pair and have slightly more displacement, 100MM AA guns, and slightly larger air group size. They are tough customers!

Deck armor of 65? Did japan used an all steel deck like the UK? Deck armor may need a look.