I've been playing a long campaign as the US Army and using other nationalities as my support troops. I fought a battle on Java in March 42 and so used Dutch support troops. Boy are those Dutch good!! Their Enfield rifles shoot as 8" howitzers (or maybe BIG rockets) and make big holes in the ground not to mention the smoke they create. In addition, their elite marines cost only about half as much as their line infantry. Needless to say, I had to restart that game without the Dutch support troops, but they sure were fun!
I would like to see the description "elite infantry" changed to "heavy infantry" for Waffen SS squads. As it stands now, there is no way to represent other elite German formations like Grossdeutchland, Panzer Lehr, 1st Gebirgsjaeger, etc. without having to resort to (and feel the spiritual taint of) using SS squads. I advocate creating a new "elite infantry" category (including variations for motorized and mechanized). I believe it is a gross injustice to the rest of the German Army to call only the Waffen SS elite infantry. Can something be done to correct this please?
Originally posted by victorhauser: Regarding the Netherlands OOB...
I've been playing a long campaign as the US Army and using other nationalities as my support troops. I fought a battle on Java in March 42 and so used Dutch support troops. Boy are those Dutch good!! Their Enfield rifles shoot as 8" howitzers (or maybe BIG rockets) and make big holes in the ground not to mention the smoke they create. In addition, their elite marines cost only about half as much as their line infantry. Needless to say, I had to restart that game without the Dutch support troops, but they sure were fun!
I actually had to check from the oob editor. Looks to be another typo Seems that the Enfield rifle in this case has a warhead size of 24. For comparison, 18 inch naval gun has warhead of 22! But the HE kill value is still 1 so they should have done only rifle damage?
Sounds so funny that I'll think I'll try a battle with the Dutch.
Voriax
Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!
Holland
FT-18 is available only from 1/39 (there is an epidemic of this, and it got so confusing that I'm not saying whether it's too early or too late for particular units), and has armor of 20, whereas all other FT's have armor of 8.
The Mk. VIc is available from 1/39.
Bren Carrier likewise.
Same with the DAF trucks.
The 25lb. Howitzer has a 100mm gun.
The 60mm mortar is available from 1/39.
Same with NL rifle section.
Same with Naval Guns.
The Bazooka AT team has a picture of a PIAT.
The HQ is only available from 1/39.
Same with sappers.
The 5.5in and 7.2 in howitzer batteries have 122mm guns.
the 7 and 10 veld guns are only available from 1/39.
Same with all the Howitser units.
Same for the 6 and 8 staal guns.
All Dutch crews have Webleys, even pre-war. Is this accurate?
20mm and 75mm AA are available from 1/39.
The 75mm LeFK16 is available from 1/41. Is this possibly to reflect that they were only used in the NEI (and I don't know that's the case)? I guess it's tough separating European Dutch from NEI Dutch.
The AAMG is only available from 1/39.
Same with the Jagers
The Buffalo should have 4 .50 cal's, and the icon is wrong, looks like maybe an F6F.
The Douglas 8A has the wrong icon, or at least the paint scheme is USN, not KNL.
The Spitfire X has a Hurricane icon.
The Fokker VII has the wrong icon (This may be an A-26), and is available from 1/39.
The Fokker C10 should be a C X, and has the wrong icon, was a recon, or army co-op, not a cargo type, is available from 1/39, and only costs 2.
The Fokker T 5 should be a T V, has a Blenheim icon, and only costs 6.
The Fokker G1 only costs 4.
The Fokker D 21 should be a D XXI, has the wrong icon (maybe an F4F), and I'm not sure about those German MG's.
The C5 observation plane should be deleted, if I understand that recon planes are not used.
The Glenn-Martin (Martin 139) has a Japanese bomber icon, and is only available from 1/41, and only costs 6.
The DC-2 has a Ju. 52 icon.
The Fokker Seaplane (T VIII ?) has a TMG, and is available from 1/32-1949.
The P-51Mustang needs a space, and appears to have the armament and icon for a P-47.
The Do. 24 has a Catalina icon.
The Fordson tractor is available from 1/39.
The Mule pack, horse cart and ammo carrier are all available from 1/39.
Same for Hussars, Motorcyclists and Recon.
The F/O has a Webley.
The Staff Car is available from 1/39.
Same for the second HQ, the assault boat, the BArge (should be Barge), the barge carrier, and the crew, who have Webley's.
Someone mentioned this before, but it was unclear. The German Kubelwagon should be spelled Kubelwagen.
Yugoslavia
The commie flag is being used.
The F-17M is only available from 1/40.
Did the Yugoslavs really get R-35's in 8/40? I don't really see how this is possible. Did they get them at all?
The 65mm gun is available from 1/30 with an M1938 rifle.
The 75mm M. 28 is available from 4/41.
The 81mm 31/38 with MAS 36 rifle is available from 1/30.
YU sappers have a picture of a mortar.
The sniper has a picture of a Polish ATR.
The 20mm AA comes with an MAS 36 and is available from 1/39-1949. Is this supposed to reflect just a generic 20mm? Why do these French rifles keep popping up? I don't think anyone used them but the French. Actually, Yugoslav weapons crews have a bewildering variety of rifles.
How did the Yugoslavs get all of these captured French and Italian tanks?
The AEC a/c has a picture of a Panhard.
The ammo dump is available from 1/39.
The T-32 had no NbW 92, but should have a ZB30j BMG.
The 76mm AA has a picture of a 20-37mm AA gun.
The mule pack and other units have generic 'pistols'. Maybe someone knows what they really used.
Poland
This one has been gone over remarkably thoroughly, but I'll throw mine in, in case I found something new.
The Mk. VIc shouldn't have a wz. 30 CMG.
The Matilda I has a Matilda II picture, and I'm not sure there were any left by the time the Poles came to the UK.
Why is all the Western equipment available until 1949? You would imagine that the Stalinist goons would have gotten rid of all of it, if any western equipped units brought theirs home.
When in France, they should not have Polish rifles.
The wz. 36 37mm ATG has 0 pen.
The 75mm wz. 02/26 is only available from 1/39.
Same for the 75mm wz. 97.
The CKM wz. 30 MG does indeed have the wrong picture. Since it was an unlicensed copy of a Browning water-cooled, you could just use one of those. However, the picture is of a Hotchkiss, which I understand was used by reserve units.
The 105mm wz. 29 is only available from 1/40.
There should be no wz.36 ATG's when serving with the UK. The crew on the one that's available from 1/41-1949 has Enfields. This unit should be deleted, as I doubt any were left after 1939.
The wz. 18/24 SPAA is available from 1/39, and has a mle. 1897 gun. I guess it may really have had that gun, modified for AA, but the availability date is probably wrong.
The C2P and C4P tractors are available until 1949.
The Polish Cav. ATR is available from 1/30.
[This message has been edited by Seth (edited 05-30-2000).]
Norway
75 mm M/32 AA has a picture of light AA.
The Gladiator icon has the wrong paint scheme, and it should have 4 MG's.
China
The Vickers 6 Ton has a picture of a 7TP.
The Ba. 27 icon is wrong.
The first I-16 should have 4 MG's and no cannon.
What is the Polikarpov? An R-5?
The crew of the 20mm AA gun has 3 BAR's, not likely given the desperately bad equipment levels of the Chinese.
The crew carry grenades.
Greece
Is the icon for the L 5/30 correct? Is this some captured Italian junk?
The 85 mm mle. 27 is available from 1/35.
The Greek pistol has a range of 12.
The Gladiator should have 4 MG's.
The 155mm mle. 17S is available from 1/35.
The P-24 should have 2 20mm cannon, and 2 MG's.
The 100mm m14/19 is available from 1/35.
Same with the 80mm m33, but this may be correct.
In 'The Real Thing' YU bunkers, etc. have German MG's.
As a general observation, crews of tanks often had weapons such as SMG's that they could use dismounted. Also, at least in some German tanks, one (or both?) of the MG's was theoretically removeable.
Dont know if the hard working Seth has reported this one, but the Czech Marder TDs appear to be armed with rifles rather than 75mm AT guns. Haven't game tested it, but the error appears on the unit stats in the purchase screen.
Originally posted by Arralen: As you wish ...
Is it correct that the Grant has AP ammo for his 75mm gun?
Wonder especially as I found the 75mm gun a real good Tiger-Killer ...
Arralen
As I found out, the OOB is correct - the Grant/Lee had AP ammo for the 74mm available - but they where "solid" rounds without any charge inside .. so killing-% shouldn't be very high ...
AMD FX-4300
Gigabyte 970A-DS3P
Kingston 24GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800)
Asus GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB GDDR5
Kingston SV300 120 GB
Windows 8.1
I think the Boys Antitank Rifle is much too capable . My reverences say that it was very ineffective as antitank weapon , only been able to breached up to 12-15mm at 100m dropping at longer range . Here it has an ap value of 33 .
If it hasn't been stated elsewhere, I think the Polish 75mm wz.36 AA should be tweaked to be more expensive, as I believe it's only 11 points in cost. Comparably, the German 88mm AA is 60 points, while the Russian 85mm AAA is 45 points. You already know of my objections that the Polish gun's range is too far. Thanks
I must agree with Charles . The Range of the gun is much to great and the costs are to low .It has to be considered that Poland had only 156 of these 75mm AA Guns . With this low price there is a chance that you encounter them alone in one campain .
Bulgaria
8mm Madsen has the wrong picture.
105mm LeFH 18 becomes available 12/49.
Same with the 150mm sFH, and the 122mm 390/1.
The Cam de 20mm is armed with a 20mm mle 39 0. What is the 0? This becomes available 3/41. Is it captured French?
The 155mm L/15 becomes available 12/49.
Same for the 105mm b. Ob.
What is a Mk. VIc (b)? The (b) seems to imply that it's captured from the Belgians. Did they even have these? I'm pretty sure the Bulgarians didn't buy them from the British, but I'm also pretty sure the Belgians didn't have any either. At any rate, if it is captured, it shouldn't be available from 1/38.
The 75mm PaK 97 crew has MAS 36's.
The Vickers 8 ton has the wrong picture.
The 220mm 532f becomes available 12/49. Were these in the French OOB?
The 75mm Let AA has M1938 rifles, but is available 1/35.
The aircraft color schemes look wrong, should be a fairly bright green.
The 105mm b. Ob. battery is available from 1/35, even though it seems to be war booty.
The 220mm 532f battery is available from 1/38, with the same problem as above.
Communist China
The first ATR team has a picture of a bazooka.
A lot of the warlord squads have camaras. What are these? I'd guess swords, except that there's no hand to hand.
The second ATR team has a PzB 39, but is available from 1/35.
The 6.5 mm MMG is available from 1/30, but it's captured Japanese, so it shouldn't come out that early.
The crew have grenades.
Strictly speaking, the Warlords are not communist, and should be available later than 1930.
A lot of the captured Japanese stuff shows up awfully early.
Nationalist Spain
The first 37mm, 50mm, and 75mm ATG's are all tank guns.
The 20mm Vierlng should be Vierling.
The L-3/35 weighs 22.
There are 3 88mm and 37mm ATG's, all of whch look the same, there are also at least two of nearly every AFV.
The Chauchat has a range of 1.
The 8mm Breda has M1938 rifles from 1/37.
Same for the LMG squad.
the 114mm and 119mm guns are both 4.5in FG's.
The recon Ro. 37 should be deleted, and the paint scheme on this plane is Republican.
The 101mm Naval is a 16 in.
The 120mm Naval is an 18 in.
the 152mm Naval is a 127mm.
The 152mm Naval+ is a 150mm.
The S.M. 81 has a tank icon.
The crew have grenades.
Of course, no NS of any kind should be available before 1936, and plenty of them are. Is NS also supposed to represent pre-civil war Spain?
Originally posted by Seth:
Of course, no NS of any kind should be available before 1936, and plenty of them are. Is NS also supposed to represent pre-civil war Spain?
Actually, there were many factions pre-1936 that (over time) merged to become the "Nationalists." These factions fought amongst themselves and against the host of other factions that eventually made up the "Republicans." Some of these factions were: Carlists, Requetes, Alfonsists, CEDA (Confedeacion Espanola de Derechas Autonomas), JONS (Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional-Sindicalista), and of course the Falangists. These groups performed guerilla and mob actions, assassinations and paramilitary strikes. Of course they would not have armour or air, but they would have all types of infantry and some vehicles (armored trucks even). Some of these groups (e.g CEDA, JONS) were quite fanatical and militaristic, and later made up the more aggressive elements of the Falangists.
You're certainly right, but my impression was that before the war, and lots of foreign help, these groups were nothing more than a bunch of restive civilians blowing up the odd cafe and shooting at each other with duck guns and whatever else they could scrape up, but not running around in squads with LMG's and grenades. I know Spain was really pretty disorganized, but there wasn't much in the way of open warfare, right? I'm talking pre 1936, of course. These sort of things could be a real mess to sort out. The same goes for China, but most of that was actual organized militaries.
Originally posted by Seth: You're certainly right, but my impression was that before the war, and lots of foreign help, these groups were nothing more than a bunch of restive civilians blowing up the odd cafe and shooting at each other with duck guns and whatever else they could scrape up, but not running around in squads with LMG's and grenades. I know Spain was really pretty disorganized, but there wasn't much in the way of open warfare, right? I'm talking pre 1936, of course. These sort of things could be a real mess to sort out. The same goes for China, but most of that was actual organized militaries.
Carlists were militarily organized, and their partners, the Requetes were trained in military tactics in Italy. CEDA was more spec ops -- assassinations and inciting riots, but as right-wing Catholics they were very organized in a heirarchal structure. JONS was also militarily organized.
True military? No. Organized militia-type groups? Yes. Remember, the Falangists were around for a long time before war broke out -- the Nueva-Falangists came in during 1936, and all the groups merged into the Falangists/Nueva-Falangists by 1936.
As for the weapons, they were using duck guns and anything they could scrape up during the war -- especially the Republicans.
Then there was always the City Guards . . . pre-1936, and after.
It all depends on what you want to model, and what you want the player to be able to do. There is enough room to include Carlist & Requetes Companies (which there were), and platoons of CEDAs & JONS (max size for them), with Inf AT using Molotovs . . . stuff like that.
Okay, so here's the last three.
Czechoslovakia
The Oa. vz.30 armored cars had vz. 26 LMG's, box magazines and all.
I've never heard of the vz. 30 with a 20mm. An experiment perhaps?
The Tancik 33 picture is wrong, and the icon is some sort of turreted vehicle.
The Marder III does indeed have an M1 carbine instead of a 75mm.
The Czechs seem to all have Colt .45's. They should have the Czech service pistol instead, right?
The CZ rifle squad with a ZK383 is available from 1/30.
I now understand that all the artillery that becomes available on 12/49 is for scenario design purposes, so I'll skip those.
The vz. 37 MMG is available from 1/34.
Motorcyclists with an SG43 are available from 1/38. Should probably change the gun to a vz. 37.
Aircraft should not be black, but a nice kind of pine green.
One of the Aero 100's should be dropped, since the bomb load is the same.
Philipines
I assume the Enfields are correct, but it seemed odd since the Philipines were basically an American colony.
The 2.95 in Mtn. gun has M1's from 1/30.
Same for the .50 AAMG.
The Command Truck has a picture of a jeep, and the icon seems to be for a truck-mounted AA.
I don't think the Philipines had P-40's, or Martin B-10's.
I think the availability of the captured Japanese stuff should probably only go to the end of '45. I imagine we got rid of most of that junk as soon as we could.
Republican Spain
There are 2 70mm inf. guns that seem to be exactly the same.
The I-15 should be a Chato, no 'S', and the icon looks like a Nationalist Chinese SB-2.
Super Chato has the same problems.
The FO vehicle has a Flame CV 33 icon
The Chauchat has a range of 2, and acc. of 1. If this is the WWI MG, it was a piece of crap, but should be a little better.
The .30 cal. AA has a picture of maybe a 37mm gun.
The 101mm Naval gun is a 16in gun.
The 120mm Naval gun is an 18in gun.
The 152mm Naval gun is a 127mm gun.
The second 152mm Naval gun is a 150mm gun.
There are multiples of most of the tanks, and the two A-4's have different icons.
It would seem that the Nationalists are indeed supposed to represent the pre-war army. If this is so, they need to have a lot of the equipment that the Republicans have, e.g. Spanish pistols and grenades. The Assault Guards should be available earlier, as they are not a civil war creation. Maybe some day we can make an OOB for Spain, and keep the civil war stuff separate. They way it is now is probably the only way to make it work, but it is really confusing.
With the next update maybe you could assign more memory to allow more than 255 text files. I like to write encyclopedia entries for every AFV, truck, and plane.
Bicycle co is a series of Bunkers
all the period ( 1930-1949)
I do not recall seing bicycles
troops in the late 30's
Aiforce:
No Airforce till 1936!!!
Are we forgetting something?
The few planes included have wrong
dates wrong armament( the Ju87 has no
ammo), Italy did not use lb to designate
the bombs till it entered NATO.
It creates a lot of errors beside the
wrong payloads amd speed etc.
Artillery:
Well it is too long, 80% is all wrong
missing pieces, wrong payloads, wrong
ranges, wrong names etc.
Mortars NO COMMENT.
Machine guns, none till 1939,ouch!!!
here are some in case you did not know,
S.N.I.A.
Fiat M14
Fiat M22
Fiat M30
Fiat M35
Breda M35
Breda M37
LMG Breda M30 was rechambered to 7.35mm
never seen it in the game.
Tanks and armored:
Missing ones, those in have wrong names
wrong designation,wrong payloads, wrong armor
e.g. L33 improved to L35 with less armor??
wrong armament or position
e.g.(Lancia IZM has 2 MG in turret and one in the back)
SPA AB.40 entered service at the end of 1939
not the end of 1940!
It is possible to list tanks all toghether
I have to jump all over to see what is available (the little as is).
Many more
Infantry:
Too long but can at leats make the morale
realistic, even elite troops vome out
as barely sufficient, a bit far fetched.
No ammunition resuply? so in earlier campaigns what do we do? need again to buy equipment from other countries?
Names, many are not even remotely close to
Italian ones.
This a generalized description if needed
I can provide a more specific one
Soviet Arms Shipped to Republican Spain
Oct-1936 to Feb-1939
---------------------------------------
(source: Arms for Spain, Gerald Howson)
*=items that left USSR but no records of entry to Spain
Aircraft:
---------
31 Tupelov SB Bombers (plus 50 returned to USSR)*
10 Tupelov 93 Bombers (plus 10 returned to USSR)*
10 Nyeman R-10 Light Bombers (all returned to USSR)*
92 SB Katiuska
131 I-15 Chato
30 I-15 bis Super-Chato (+30*)
397 I-16 Mosca (+70* that were returned to USSR)
31 R5sss Rasante
93 R-Z Natacha
4 UTI Trainers (+6* that were returned to USSR)
Tanks:
------
306 T-26 (+40* that were scheduled but not embarked)
50 BT-5 w/Radios
Armoured Cars:
--------------
37 BA-6
1 BA-3 w/Radio
3 BA-3
20 FAI
Artillery:
----------
240 German Grenade-Throwers (primitive Trench Mortars) (possibly 340)
30 Inf Support Guns: Puski Maklen 37mm M17
500 AT Guns: 37mm M30/L45 Gochkisa (PAK 35/36 copies) (+180* that were returned to USSR)
147 AT Guns: 45mm M32/L46 (+3*)
2 Unspecified Field Guns
8 75mm Field Guns
111 76mm Field Guns (French) (+60* that were returned to USSR)
48 76mm F-22 Field Guns (all returned to USSR)*
279 76.2mm Field Guns (Putilow M03/30)
22 77mm Field Guns (Krupp M16)
80 107mm Field Guns (Japanese) (+14* that were returned to USSR)
18 127mm Field Guns (Armstrong) (+17* that were returned to USSR)
20 155mm Field Guns (de Bange M1877, Saint Chamond M1877)
Seems that the Enfield rifle in this case has a warhead size of 24. For comparison, 18 inch naval gun has warhead of 22! But the HE kill value is still 1 so they should have done only rifle damage?
