PBEM 109

[Anthropoid]

Now that was annoying. I set all my units to advance out of Austria asap, and what do I see now in T185: they've stayed in Vienna getting drunk and womanizing now so late the the snows have started! [:@]

I hope my depots can extend into Austrian territory because if not, it is virtually buglike. In SP the player is asked which province he wants his forces to evacuate to = when somebody surrenders to you, you don't suffer massive attrition from exiting their country.

[06 Maestro]

Auto redeployment (beaming out) is normal in PBEM games also. I have no idea what happened here. Ottoman forces did not beam out either.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

I can' wait until the next time as Austria has just added another 400 points in military experience.

But it seems his generals are tired of war and have all gone home [:D]

Terje

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

I can' wait until the next time as Austria has just added another 400 points in military experience.

But it seems his generals are tired of war and have all gone home [:D]

Terje

[:D] You are brutal.

Austria does have a few junior generals left-perhaps they will be good. The good days do seem to be over for the Austrian army though.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

I can' wait until the next time as Austria has just added another 400 points in military experience.

But it seems his generals are tired of war and have all gone home [:D]

Terje

So it does seem to be a bug.

What are we going to do to handle this?

With snow on the ground, and it being questionable whether I will be able to supply my forces inside Austria, not to mention the extra march attrition, I will undoubtedly lose a lot more troops in a war that is over. In fact, with many containers in the 3K range, I may well lose a number of divisions.

While I'm not particularly a fan of the beamout mechanism in game, I do realize that, because the way march attrition and supply is handled in the game, it is a necessary mechanic: it does not seem to make sense if a victorious army still inside a vanquished foe nation was not able to either supply itself, or extract supply from the defeated landscape on its way home, and consequently suffered as many or more casualties on its march home as it did in the war itself?

Is it possible that the beamout will happen next turn?

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Is it possible that the beamout will happen next turn?

My lads ended up walking back home.

Terje

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

England T185 sent in.

All the Best
Peter

[06 Maestro]

All in but one-message sent.

[IronWarrior]

Hey just noticed you guys were talking about the redeployment after surrender. I had asked at the beginning of the game for a vote if you remember, and the consensus was to not use the teleport option.

If there is a bug that prevents supply, perhaps we can rethink this? I wasn't aware of any problems until now, so let me know what you guys think.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior

Hey just noticed you guys were talking about the redeployment after surrender. I had asked at the beginning of the game for a vote if you remember, and the consensus was to not use the teleport option.

If there is a bug that prevents supply, perhaps we can rethink this? I wasn't aware of any problems until now, so let me know what you guys think.

On the turn that we received the surrender (Oct 1807) I kept my supply line to Vienna in place and I also added some others. I think ordered my units back toward Russia.

Next turn (the one we just played) Nov 1807, all my depots inside Austria were gone. Many of my units had not moved at all.

[06 Maestro]

It sounds like it should be turned on. I assume this means that everyone should have a rally point chosen.

edit:(on second thought it is more realistic to be stuck in another country after a surrender-with this reminder it should be ok as is)

I also left one army in a bad spot expecting it to be beamed to safety. Forunataly I had maintained supply for my main forces.

BTW Bill-I also forgot about the agreed attrition rate-and can't find that info in this thread. Just what are we using?

[IronWarrior]

Basically the way it works is; after a surrender the merging player receives a message asking if nation x wants to perform a strategic move out (yes or no). We had voted on it and the consensus was no, but if there are issues with it I am fine with using the stratgic move.

If anyone objects let me know, otherwise we can change it to strategic move out.

Attrition should be Bonaparte, but only Terje can say for sure (he was the player that set up the game).

[Matto]

If I remember well, when we discussed it, we made decision select No, when asking for teleport ... but you can always sent a message to Bill, if you want use Yes or is possible add free passage sentence to surrender treaty (you had so many points that you can do it easily)
No it looks are Russian troops trapped ... they cannot move because we are not allied, not free passage treaty ...

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior
Attrition should be Bonaparte, but only Terje can say for sure (he was the player that set up the game).

Yeah, ask the guy that does not even remember where he placed his glasses...
But the setup should have been as agreed upon.

Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Matto
No it looks are Russian troops trapped ... they cannot move because we are not allied, not free passage treaty ...

Or he could right click your territory, chose "violate neutrality" and walk away [;)]

Terje

[Matto]

Not sure if it is possible during forced peace ... but if it is, than this is a solution ...

[Anthropoid]

My jnits seem to have moved a bit toward Russia b/w 185 and 186 so I don't thin they are "trapped" per se. They at least made it to about Carpathia from Vienna. Also my supply lines were still in place at the start of T186. So I retract my statement of "bug." It seems to be more or less WAD. Except for the fact that my supply lines disappeared between 184 and 185. The fact that they didn't move between 184 and 185 could've just been bad luck on the strategic initiative factor.

I agree that having to march them home is more realistic than teleportation. I suppose even having to supply them in order to prevent foraging losses is not unreasonable; the locals might not be that cooperative with helping to supply them, and since a surrender was agreed to, it might be quite awkward for commanders who did not enforce a strict code of not harassing locals and their larders.

I don't like the march attrition "difficulty" setting in general. I think it should just be _attrition_ that impacts units at all times, although worse when marching, out of garrison, when in enemy territory, etc., the idea that suddenly suffering attrition as a result of a unit moving is a reflection of "difficulty" in a game versus the computer much less against other humans I think is silly; increased attrition in general, yes, that seems reasonable to model increased difficulty. But attrition specific to marching, no, not realistic, it creates a NEW dynamic that is not present in the lower difficulty settings. A march attrition difficult setting doesn't make it more difficult, it makes it more difficult to be active with your units.

However, if a redeployment system is going to require the human to march his forces home, then there should AUTOMATICALLY be a free passage that allows him to supply them until such time as his final unit crosses the border. I guess, given that my supply depots persisted in place betwen 185 and 186 that that is in fact how it works? I don't know if I'm violating neutrality right now or not?

Also, I think that perhaps movement rates should be upped just slightly (for units exiting a defeated enemy): Moving back through a defeated enemy territory would not involve a need to maintain tactical-ready order, nor the need to post sentries, encamp in defensive posture, etc., etc., this would reduce traffic jams, and so in general, I think it would make sense if units exiting a surrendered enemy territory actually moved a little bit faster than when they were moving through hostile territory. Maybe even a bit faster than when they move through home territory ("lets get home fever").

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

England T186 sent in.

Bill having taken over from Mus I wasn't aware/forgot about the 'No repatriation' bit, I know from the very 1st game that troops can get stuck if not withdrawn so please can I opt out, I would like my troops sent home for 'Tea & Crumpet', Ta.

All the Best
Peter

[Anthropoid]

Yeah, send mine home too.

[06 Maestro]

One nation to go-message sent.