WitE 2

[RforRush]

I didn't know combat engine is reworked, that's wonderful news. And what is Steel Tigers? Some sort of unfinished game?

[RedLancer]

tm.asp?m=3885806&mpage=1&key=Steel%2CTigers

[EwaldvonKleist]

In WitE 1, divisions and corps pay less MPs to enter enemy hexagons, and they are able to convert hexagons along their path they do not physically enter. But this capabilities are not tied to their actual strength, leading to the case that a 10 000men brigade cannot do the same as a 2000men understrenght division.
Are their plans to give a unit the "division status" and the resulting extra skills depending on the actual strength, not its name? Would be a good thing IMO.
Regards

[swkuh]

@EwaldvonKleist: +++1

Might be other issues between strong brigades and weak divisions. Never thought of this.

Can HQs penetrate enemy hexes by themselves? (Don't think so.)

[Rodimstev]

hi all,

in WITE our futur favourite game, please realize a whole europe map....because in my MP Game, i am 2 hex to Berlin and in face i have 3 millions germans soldiers...and it is impossible to flank them, because the map is limited...

it is really a non sense.

Kinds regards

Rodim

[SpicyJuan]

Will there be any what if scenarios in WITE2? It would be interesting to play a scenario where Barbarossa starts as scheduled or the Soviets get less Lend-Lease due to the Americans not joining the war (or some other political reason) impacting the amount of reinforcements they get.

[RedLancer]

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan

Will there be any what if scenarios in WITE2? It would be interesting to play a scenario where Barbarossa starts as scheduled or the Soviets get less Lend-Lease due to the Americans not joining the war (or some other political reason) impacting the amount of reinforcements they get.

For initial release I very much doubt it. Scenario design takes quite a long time and we use all of them to balance and develop the game. I expect there will be a later expansion disk and I'd like to do some more what if scenarios.

[morvael]

There are no expansion disks anymore, only DLC [:D]

[Joel Billings]

With a game like WitE, and some of the old guard that work on it, it's hard to keep from talking old school. [:)]

[thedoctorking]

New to this, haven't gone over the whole discussion, so forgive me if this question has already been posed.

Any chance of a game combining War in the East and War in the West? I'd love that. Based on just a little messing around, I like the WitW air system. WitE is my new favorite game.

I'd also like to start in September 1939. That was a disappointing feature of WitW, that you can't get earlier than Operation Torch even with the DLC.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

New to this, haven't gone over the whole discussion, so forgive me if this question has already been posed.

Any chance of a game combining War in the East and War in the West? I'd love that. Based on just a little messing around, I like the WitW air system. WitE is my new favorite game.

I'd also like to start in September 1939. That was a disappointing feature of WitW, that you can't get earlier than Operation Torch even with the DLC.

Earlier posts on this thread says that WiTE 2.0 has WitW air rules Also, if I remember reading correctly their will be a game after WiTE 2.0 that combines all of Europe in one Monster game (also in this post I believe). So be careful what you wish for.

[No idea]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

New to this, haven't gone over the whole discussion, so forgive me if this question has already been posed.

Any chance of a game combining War in the East and War in the West? I'd love that. Based on just a little messing around, I like the WitW air system. WitE is my new favorite game.

I'd also like to start in September 1939. That was a disappointing feature of WitW, that you can't get earlier than Operation Torch even with the DLC.

According to red lancer, on a DISTANT future, the aim is to merge both maps. But that is far in the future. First they will have to see if wite 2 is a success.

[Stelteck]

Unlike many people here, i'am not so enthusiast about a game mixing WITW and WITE in a complete map and representing all the war.

WITE and WITW are already very complex due to the sheer numbers of units.

A full Map would be even less manageable (at least if without overhaul&simplifications of mecanism&units numbers).
The campaign would take ages.
So there would really be few potential customers.

It could be an epic commercial failure and a waste of precious developer's time that could be used elsewhere.

[No idea]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Unlike many people here, i'am not so enthusiast about a game mixing WITW and WITE in a complete map and representing all the war.

WITE and WITW are already very complex due to the sheer numbers of units.

A full Map would be even less manageable (at least if without overhaul&simplifications of mecanism&units numbers).
The campaign would take ages.
So there would really be few potential customers.

It could be an epic commercial failure and a waste of precious developer's time that could be used elsewhere.

Certainly such a huge game would need a new UI (we would save A LOT of time if we had a windows system to attach and dettach SUs) and I guess regiment sized units should go, same as aviation units (thy should be abstracted, as it happens in witw, or so I think). With that, I think the game would be manageable.

WitPAE is a far less manageable game than wite or witw and it was a sucess.

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: No idea
WitPAE is a far less manageable game than wite or witw and it was a success.

Yes and no.
I played 2 full WITP AE campaign.
WITP AE look huge and there is certainly a huge number of turns.
But, for 90% of the turns nothing is happening, your ressuply convoys are on their 5 week courses, daily air patrol are performed with nothing new and the turn can be completed and finished in 15 minutes, while you are waiting for month for your fuel stockpile to be enough for a 3 week operations with your small numbers of elite naval and air units.

In WITE, when you are playing the soviet spring 1942 with 600 divisions and brigades to move each turn. Oups. [:'(]
Each turn could be quite long.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

ORIGINAL: No idea
WitPAE is a far less manageable game than wite or witw and it was a success.

Yes and no.
I played 2 full WITP AE campaign.
WITP AE look huge and there is certainly a huge number of turns.
But, for 90% of the turns nothing is happening, your ressuply convoys are on their 5 week courses, daily air patrol are performed with nothing new and the turn can be completed and finished in 15 minutes, while you are waiting for month for your fuel stockpile to be enough for a 3 week operations with your small numbers of elite naval and air units.

In WITE, when you are playing the soviet spring 1942 with 600 divisions and brigades to move each turn. Oups. [:'(]
Each turn could be quite long.

+1

5 full campaigns as the Allies 3 to the end

Certainly WitpAE has details .. setting hex ranges to avoid CAP traps .. IJ production details ..going through a list of intelligence reports and plotting where units or ships are etc .. but once a plan is in place most of the units are on autopilot going somewhere There is the turn where carriers are close and the fingernail biting calculations.. but in all typical turn 30 mins ..

WITE has many meticulous details every turn .. especially the Air Force .recon recon recon sweep sweep bomb ... setting or changing policy multiple times during the turn .. (escort, night vs day, percentage thresholds to ground bomb) it’s an interactive IGOUGO system .. one unexpected failed attack and one is relooking at the entire turn and eventual position of units .. unless you don’t care and are simply pushing units wherever they go .. then there are major decisions every turn how to spend APs Buy a unit? (Soviets) Replace a bad commander? shift a FB to fighter from bomber? Manually swap aircraft? HQBU? Then pushing the actual units full fog of war and click click click ... t

I have been working on an opening move in my game with SparkleyTits for over 10 man hours most turns are at least 4 hours .. a single front 2 hours with somebody setting up the air force ...

Much more complicated game .. if you don’t think so you might be missing details

[thedoctorking]

How many copies of this does he have to sell at 70 bucks a pop to be a commercial success? I think of the hexes and counters wargame hobby as being a niche thing anyway, whether on computers or cardboard. I play a lot of Advanced Squad Leader, and I see a selection of the same ~200 guys at every event, online tournament, etc. I think that MMP (ASL's publisher) produces a new title if they have something like 500 pre-orders. I couldn't imagine a monster game based on the WitE/WitW engine covering all of Europe 1939-1945 wouldn't sell 500 copies.

I remember in college a bunch of guys set up the entire GDW European War oevre in somebody's garage and played it. Took two years to get into the summer of 1942 (at which point the Germans were storming the Urals). they had to rig up a way to lift up the central map so you could crawl underneath and stand in the middle to move the counters in central Europe. It was fun.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I remember in college a bunch of guys set up the entire GDW European War oevre in somebody's garage and played it. Took two years to get into the summer of 1942 (at which point the Germans were storming the Urals). they had to rig up a way to lift up the central map so you could crawl underneath and stand in the middle to move the counters in central Europe. It was fun.

GDW Eastern Front/Scorched Earth. Been there done that too but only for Russia since the other fronts are kinda boring imho. I LOVE virtual counters more though!

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Unlike many people here, i'am not so enthusiast about a game mixing WITW and WITE in a complete map and representing all the war.

WITE and WITW are already very complex due to the sheer numbers of units.

A full Map would be even less manageable (at least if without overhaul&simplifications of mecanism&units numbers).
The campaign would take ages.
So there would really be few potential customers.

It could be an epic commercial failure and a waste of precious developer's time that could be used elsewhere.

Its not just a matter of size its of getting the early years right. From Sept 39 - June 41, WW2 in Europe was essentially a political set of dynamics. it only became a total war with the German invasion of the Soviet Union.

Now if you build a game that allows diplomacy and politics --- and options [:)]--- full play in that period its very unlikely you will see a repeat of history. This doesn't matter in a game like Strategic Command (indeed the game is designed to allow the players to go a long way off the reservation) but it does in a game that at its core is a highly detailed OOB and models the impact of individual tanks and planes.

So there is a massive design decision in there alone. No point to all this detail and realism if the game has developed completely ahistorically.

You also have the problem of scale. Most of the campaigns between 1939 and 1941 were isolated and relatively quick, a 10 mile hex, 1 week turn game will miss a lot of the real details (this was a problem with the old GDW Grand Europa games set in the early war).

So even if it is technically feasible, the question is when do you merge the 2? June 1941 is one option, for good or ill both sides are at that point fully committed. Later might be easier, but the later you go the more it becomes a game of survival for the Axis player. A late 1944 scenario could be a good merge point (technically) but its going to be a grim game for the Axis side?

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

How many copies of this does he have to sell at 70 bucks a pop to be a commercial success? I think of the hexes and counters wargame hobby as being a niche thing anyway, whether on computers or cardboard. I play a lot of Advanced Squad Leader, and I see a selection of the same ~200 guys at every event, online tournament, etc. I think that MMP (ASL's publisher) produces a new title if they have something like 500 pre-orders. I couldn't imagine a monster game based on the WitE/WitW engine covering all of Europe 1939-1945 wouldn't sell 500 copies.

You may underestimate the cost of developping of software.
Whatever to give you an order of magnitude, SteamSpy estimate that War in the East have between 6000 to 10000 owners. (There may be owners who never registered on steam that have to be added).
I do not know if it is considered as a success or not.

Decisive campaign barbarossa is estimated as a commercial failure (according to the dev in its blog), still steamspy estimate that there is between 3000 and 5000 owners.

This looks big, but in software games it is very small numbers.

To compare, dominion 4, a hardcore fantasy 4X (really hardcore, terrible UI, tons of options, very complicated, tons of micromanagement) that can compare in complexity (and interest) with wargames have according to steamspy between 60000 to 80000 owners.

Heart of iron IV have 800K.