T55 South:
Major battle going on there. My opponent chose to make a left hook with his Pzball and pocket some of my units. But I had a lot of Tank and Cavalry Corps in this area, so I am able to mount a massive counter-attack, link back to my units, and even pocket several Panzer divisions.... Josef is dancing on his desk in the Kremlin!
Impressive stuff, looks like you are now able to absorb pretty much everything he can chuck at you, even if your own attacks are slow.
Think there tends to come a point (in a balanced game) where the 2 armies are basically even, but of course the Soviets then get better and the Axis worse, so converting this into an attritional slugging match is in your favour
Bigbaba, Loki, yes the use of Cavalry and Tank Corps to counter-attack has been the key to this. Without those, I think JC's Pzball in the south, and possibly south of Kaluga would have pocketed many more units, and I may already be in a dire spot. Instead we have a blow-for-blow battle, not historical for sure. I think in some ways this looks a bit more like historical 1943.
I have read some posts where people don't always recommend building too many Tank Corps early in 1942, but I turned almost all the tank brigades I had into Corps and honestly this was the best decision made! With their high MP, they can seat back away from the front and counter-attack wherever you need, and sometimes I even got 2 deliberate attacks per turn out of some of them. They do lose a lot of tanks in each battle, but 1 turn in the rear in REFIT and they refill pretty well, 2 turns and usually they get back close to their 160 tanks TOE. Those things are worth their weight in gold for the soviets in 1942!
In the North, I am the one on the "offensive" now, although it is a stretch to call it an offensive...
I have to concentrate my forces to be able to get close to 2:1 CV and have high probability to push German 3-stacks. This means for example that this turn I was only able to muster 2 deliberate attacks in the Moscow area.
JC has Pz concentrations North of Orel and west of Voronej, and that is where most of the action is. A lot of back & forth here.
I also cherry-pick some spots where I can get a good CV ratio and score some wins
JC loses ~300 tanks this turn, and me over 500. I think this is unsustainable on both sides compared to production rates, but I have the advantage that the Russians usually end up in Spring 42 with a sizable pool of tanks, so I can replenish my Tank Corps easily for now. And it only takes a few quiet mud/snow/blizzard turns to get the pool back up quickly.
this strategic situation is great for you. you can absorb the huge loses of the constant attacking and counterattacking much much better then the axis player. at one time he will run out MP and hardware and his unit's CV will sink even more what will allow you more attacks= more casualties for him = lower CV or "circle of doom" for germans.
he should stop attacking and begin the defensive phase of the campaign with counterattacks against your advancing spearheads.
Seems like either the game balance is still a big issue or the German player was very much outclassed. He won't be able to make any sort of pushes in 42 as historical.
My feeling is 1.7 is still broken and the Sov can get so massive after spring 42 that the axis player is forced into a very unfavorable battle of attrition. Which is simply insane since history proves Sov were still incapable of hold their lines when the axis launch their offensive in summer 42. This game in 42 feels like it should be 43.
I don't think JC was very much outclassed, but there are a few thing he did that may have contributed to the situation, or at least they are things I do differently playing as German:
1. JC chose to defend during blizzard (we are using mild rule). The benefit to him is that between the mild blizzard rule, my slow start in December due to a weak / disorganized red army, and having his Pz & Motorized units stacked at the front line and well entrenched, it was very hard for me to push him back. So he lost very little ground and almost no major city during my blizzard offensive. The flip side is that he started the 1942 offensive with only 1500-1600 ready tanks. I go the other way, I winter all my Pz and Mot units, and am prepared to lose more ground. But I start 1942 with over 3000 Pz. This is my preference as I favor destroying the Red Army first in 1942, and scoring VPs second. So he started 1942 with a Pz force which was half of what it could be, meaning it ran out of steam quickly. It also made it easier for me to counterattack his weaker Pz units and damage them further. I would guess their morale may have been lower due to Blizzard exposure also.
2. JC did not look for a weak point in my frontline and concentrate his Pz there. He also did not surprise me with his attack. He had a major Pz ball in south, and more around Moscow, and then some more spread in between. They stayed there all winter, so I knew where they were, and so I piled up most of my strong units there to defend. And he attacked right there in my strongest defenses. For most military strategists, success requires concentration of forces where you want to break through, finding a weak spot if possible, and an element of surprise. There JC did not meet any one of those guidelines. I tend to follow more the strategists in 1942:
- Pick good terrain: no Pz north of Kaluga, it's useless Tank terrain. Instead all my Pz are between Kaluga and the Black Sea, which is almost all good Pz terrain.
- Find weak spots in russian front line.
- Keep Pz in the rear and fairly spread out, and concentrate them heavily at the last minute before attacking, to prevent the russians to adjust their defense much.
This usually enables me to make a nice pocket the first turn of my attack. Then it kind of snowballs: the russians have to bring troops from other sectors to plug the gap. But they don't have time to dig in, so I can re-attack immediately those new troops in open terrain and pocket more. And then the cycle continues. Eventually other sectors of the front get depleted as the russians peel off troops to plug the gaps I make, creating new weak spots for attacks. Eventually the russian army is in tatters, and then I switch to strategic goals and look to conquer VPs. But my initial attack focus on weak spots and completely ignores where the VPs are. I feel you can't get to enough VPs anyway if you don't destroy a good chunk of the Red Army, so that is the top priority.
And then I think like others have pointed out before, this game can sometimes diverge and snowball based on small deviations. Like in this case, JC's strategy did not put me on my back foot in 1942, and enabled me to counterattack heavily. And turn after turn, the effect of this quickly grew, worst for him, and better for me. I am not sure that it's a problem with the game though. Wars often turn one way or another because of small decisions with big consequences. I find actually it's a good thing that the game allows the outcome to vary widely based on decisions made by players.
I don't think JC was very much outclassed, but there are a few thing he did that may have contributed to the situation, or at least they are things I do differently playing as German:
1. JC chose to defend during blizzard (we are using mild rule). The benefit to him is that between the mild blizzard rule, my slow start in December due to a weak / disorganized red army, and having his Pz & Motorized units stacked at the front line and well entrenched, it was very hard for me to push him back. So he lost very little ground and almost no major city during my blizzard offensive. The flip side is that he started the 1942 offensive with only 1500-1600 ready tanks. I go the other way, I winter all my Pz and Mot units, and am prepared to lose more ground. But I start 1942 with over 3000 Pz. This is my preference as I favor destroying the Red Army first in 1942, and scoring VPs second. So he started 1942 with a Pz force which was half of what it could be, meaning it ran out of steam quickly. It also made it easier for me to counterattack his weaker Pz units and damage them further. I would guess their morale may have been lower due to Blizzard exposure also.
2. JC did not look for a weak point in my frontline and concentrate his Pz there. He also did not surprise me with his attack. He had a major Pz ball in south, and more around Moscow, and then some more spread in between. They stayed there all winter, so I knew where they were, and so I piled up most of my strong units there to defend. And he attacked right there in my strongest defenses. For most military strategists, success requires concentration of forces where you want to break through, finding a weak spot if possible, and an element of surprise. There JC did not meet any one of those guidelines. I tend to follow more the strategists in 1942:
- Pick good terrain: no Pz north of Kaluga, it's useless Tank terrain. Instead all my Pz are between Kaluga and the Black Sea, which is almost all good Pz terrain.
- Find weak spots in russian front line.
- Keep Pz in the rear and fairly spread out, and concentrate them heavily at the last minute before attacking, to prevent the russians to adjust their defense much.
This usually enables me to make a nice pocket the first turn of my attack. Then it kind of snowballs: the russians have to bring troops from other sectors to plug the gap. But they don't have time to dig in, so I can re-attack immediately those new troops in open terrain and pocket more. And then the cycle continues. Eventually other sectors of the front get depleted as the russians peel off troops to plug the gaps I make, creating new weak spots for attacks. Eventually the russian army is in tatters, and then I switch to strategic goals and look to conquer VPs. But my initial attack focus on weak spots and completely ignores where the VPs are. I feel you can't get to enough VPs anyway if you don't destroy a good chunk of the Red Army, so that is the top priority.
And then I think like others have pointed out before, this game can sometimes diverge and snowball based on small deviations. Like in this case, JC's strategy did not put me on my back foot in 1942, and enabled me to counterattack heavily. And turn after turn, the effect of this quickly grew, worst for him, and better for me. I am not sure that it's a problem with the game though. Wars often turn one way or another because of small decisions with big consequences. I find actually it's a good thing that the game allows the outcome to vary widely based on decisions made by players.
Guess we have different definitions of out-classed, but your last comments IMO just reinforce my original statement.
Let me put it another way for those that consider these two players evenly matched. Believe Sov player is just too strong (my opinion before this AAR). If they can wrestle away the initiative so easily in 42. People that know the real truth, not authors that used data spoon fed from Sov propaganda, it's very clear that on the whole the Sov C&C was not in any state to make effective attacks until they 'learned' (from Germans in many cases) around mid-late 43 or 44. Also, due to Hitler the decline of the German army in the east was accelerated. Hope version 1.8 fixes so of the serious play balance issues that the current version is plagued with.
North: I make a couple of selective attacks. In sectors such as Moscow where there German front line is made up of 3-stacks with Pz or Mot units and FL3 or 4, I need at least 3 hexes fully stacked and a deliberate attack to be able to score a win. This is hard to achieve with low MP Rifle units, even corps. So I only manage 2-3 attacks per turn.
Not showing North & Center maps, more or less the same, I place a few attacks where I can
In the South, again no attacks from the Germans. Some recon shows the Panzer and Motorized units have retreated behind the line. I think the offensive down there is stopped? This was very much unexpected. I expected to be pummeled quite a bit more in 1942.
I detailed what I think are the reasons a few posts back, so I won't repeat here.
I don't want the Germans to dig in too easily or be able to rebuild their forces. So armed with a renewed confidence that I have stopped the German onslaught, I switched to a new mode: ATTACK!
So I move my units in better positions and as you can see the whole front lights up with Red Army attacks...
Has the road to Berlin started?