Heavy Bomber Losses

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

As I say i'm now, after a bit of searching, beginning to think large unescorted heavy bomber raids were not the norm in PTO.

They wern't. Largely due to the troubles keeping the trickle of B-17's operational, something that proved very hard to do in Oz and the South Pacific during 1942.

I'm willing to do testing on other stuff if need (provided financial compensation follows [;)])

LoL... me first. [;)]

P.S. I've read your AAR and i'm sceptical of your views. I quote "Dont worry......forces heading towards Pearl, Karachi and Sydney even as we speak!". Are you insane? [;)]

3 years of around here would make anybody insane [:D] Look on the bright side....dont think Ron/Kaiser have lost a B-17 to air to air yet. [:'(]

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

LoL... me first. [;)]

I'll fight you for it [;)]

3 years of around here would make anybody insane [:D] Look on the bright side....dont think Ron/Kaiser have lost a B-17 to air to air yet. [:'(]

What no A2A losses to B17. Must be flawed [:'(]

[doktorblood]

THis isn't a one-way issue. If you want to see a real slaughter why don't you test an unescorted Japanese bomber strike and see what you get!

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

I'll fight you for it [;)]

Ok.....you fly a wiraway and i'll fly an A6m2 Brado. [:D] Either that or i get Tankerace's photon equipped Boise.

What no A2A losses to B17. Must be flawed [:'(]

Definately. Check out the massive ASW losses for Jan 42 I just posted too. Hopelessly broken. [;)]

[Speedysteve]

We all know what will happen with that. They will and should get slaughtered. A Betty ain't a Fort

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Ok.....you fly a wiraway and i'll fly an A6m2 Brado. [:D] Either that or i get Tankerace's photon equipped Boise.

You have the Boise i'll have a Death Star. Fair?

Definately. Check out the massive ASW losses for Jan 42 I just posted too. Hopelessly broken. [;)]

I'm gonna get angry [;)]

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

You have the Boise i'll have a Death Star. Fair?

Definately. The range of the Mark II Photon torpedo far exceeds that of a Kate and is more accurate. + it makes a much cooler sound when it launches.

I'm gonna get angry [;)]

Does your skin turn green? yikes..... [:'(]

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

We all know what will happen with that. They will and should get slaughtered. A Betty ain't a Fort

True, but Betties wern't nearly as easy to bring down as most people think. Check out Frank's and Lundstrom's work on Guad. (in reference to the standard G4M raids on Lunga airfield)

[Hard Sarge]

Hey Nik

for your Duel, you talking about a flight sim or in this game ?

in a good flight sim, I think the Wira has a pretty good chance of winning (unless the Zero pilot wants to fly like a Jerry, and use his climb and dive advantage)

the Wira for early Allied planes, may be one of the few that could move with the Zero (speed and climb it loses, but most JA pilots did not believe in that style of fighting, they liked to slow the fight down)

Ok.....you fly a wiraway and i'll fly an A6m2 Brado.

if in the game, you win



HARD_Sarge

[Nikademus]

I'll fly em like a KB pilot...and bounce him from above. My 20mm Brados chugging hot slug into Speedy's not so speedy aircraft. Boiler plate armor is no match for my rightious ammo, signed personally by Tojo himself.

With NiN's head like a hole playing in my headphones, i am unbeatable. fear me.

[:D]

[JohnK]

Regarding the ETO Luftwaffe losses to bomber gunners were practically non-existent; basically all of their losses were to escorting fighters.

For morale purposes it was basically decided to give USAAF bomber gunners all the claims they wanted with basically no investigation or attempt at accuracy; one FW190 blows up attacking a bomber box, all 20+ bomber gunners shooting at it claimed a kill and they all were given a kill.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Nik
well I a flight simmer, in fact I sort am a beta tester for a few, with a good model, that could be a fun fight, and I think in the end, the results would fool a lot of people, even more so, if they were cocky going into it, But, find a sim with a good model of the Wiraway

(oh, don't try to bounce too much with that plane, it don't have the wings for it, and the 20s on that are much better used in a slow, tail hugging chase, not in a high speed blitz)

but on with the show



I am not getting the same kind of numbers you guys are getting with the heavies ?

now my game is Allied vs the AI JP

screen shot shows my losses, it is 9-21-42 (started 8-3-42)

almost dayly raids on Rabaul, other then shutting this or that unit down for rest as needed, I think the 24's losses don't show on the screen, but 5 have been lost to air to air combat (and think most of them should be from Mandalay, not Rebaul

my 24s have shot down 8 planes, my 17s have shot down 6





so... I am showing what 28 losses to air to air combat, add in the 5 for the 24s, so... 33 for 14

a shade over 2-1 for the bad guys

but I have knocked out most of the Betty units in the Solomans and more then a few Zero units, so I think the trade is well worth the losses

HARD_Sarge

LOL edited for adding mistake

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Hi Nik
well I a flight simmer, in fact I sort am a beta tester for a few, with a good model, that could be a fun fight, and I think in the end, the results would fool a lot of people, even more so, if they were cocky going into it, But, find a sim with a good model of the Wiraway

(oh, don't try to bounce too much with that plane, it don't have the wings for it, and the 20s on that are much better used in a slow, tail hugging chase, not in a high speed blitz)

A machine is only as good as the man behind it I always say. [;)]

I wont bounce anymore than the KB's did....which was often [:D] My trouble is that in flight sim's my bounces often turn into Lawn darts....especially with Me-109's.

[:@]

[Speedysteve]

LOL Nik.

Firstly, yes i'll turn green.

Secondly, I meant THE DEATH STAR (Star Wars).

I win.

Sarge - your numbers are bound to be off. I know from your BTR playing you are far too good as Allies [:'(]

Regards,

Steven

[pad152]

Geez, I guess somebody never heard of Fighter Escort[8|].

It's funny nobody complains when unescorted Japanese bombers get hammered![&:]

[Speedysteve]

With all due respect thats a bit of a silly statement Pad152.

We all know Forts, Libs etc are for more durable than Betties etc.

Obviously its much better with escort.

Regards,

Steven

[Nikademus]

uh uh.....i'll just switch from Boise to an X-wing. one proton torpedo. No more death star. Forget Yamato.....what was the biggest white elephant ever known? [:D]

[anarchyintheuk]

Yeah, after the first one blew up you'd think they'd put some kind of grating over those openings. If the Empire just had an OSHA-like agency, they'd have demanded it.

[Nikademus]

nope, they just built Musashi-star.

Or maybe we should call her Shinano-star since she wasn't fully completed when attacked. Damage control was lax and the crew left open spaces large enough to pilot a stock freighter through.... [;)]

[anarchyintheuk]

Let's face it, they lost to furballs w/ no discernable reproductive capability and a fleet w/ a squid for an admiral. The empire deserved to lose. [:)]