When?

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

...

I am not sure why people expect so much from a $40-$50 game anyway. If it cost $1,000 then my expectations would be much different, lol. If $40 means that much to you where you get so upset you get banned, you probably should not be buying games anyway. I look at any game purchase as 'throwing money away (so does my wife too for that matter lol)' as 80% I only play once, (maybe twice if patched or enhanced) and never touch again. As an example, I paid $50 for Empire TW played it once, got it patched, played it again and have not touched it since because it is very bad imho. Do I feel ripped off? Yes. Do I wish I had never bought it? Yes. Am I so upset I am ranting on the CA forums to the point I get banned? No. I just move on.

...

1 -In the first place, I expect quality on what I buy no matter the price.

2 - In the second place, this is more evident if the rice is related to the product. A game of 1000 euros is out of question, since the usual price of a game is around 50-60 €, 50-60 $ for you lucky guys.

I mean that to charge you for a game 50 € and it's unplayable is comparable to buying a laptop for 1000 € and it's unusable. Of course, if the game was 5€ and the laptop was a bargain of 100 € it is more understandable that the quality can be lesser.

3 - It's not the same to come as you did, find a product that you didn't know and buy it, as being following the game, believe the promises they make you about the perfomance of the game in developement, contributing to it, buying it, keep on reading lies, having to test the game at home for months (to report bugs so that they can be corrected), with crashes to desktop, games inconcluded, hundreds of hours thrown away although the game had been declares Ready by developer/distributor.

4 - Even if it was 1 €, it's a personal matter to complain on somebody who scams you, but even more if they do like this, like absolute crooks.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Ohio Jones

I think we've strayed sufficiently off-topic here. Any chance we can get the conversation back to Matrix, and MWIF?

For example, I've been very pleased with the fair and honest discussion of ideas and issues in the development of the game so far. Granted, it's prior to release, and who knows - that may change post-release when (if) Matrix takes over more active management of this forum, but I don't expect it to. They seem to recognize that this game exists because of the community that supports it, and they cheese off that community at their own peril, given the niche market for this product... so it seems they've decided to engage us in a constructive and positive dialogue. Good for them. Good for us.

Here's to hoping Steve has more time for his barbershop group very soon!

Yes, all the negative I can say about PatchDox has it's postive counterpoint in MWIF and Steve.

[Numdydar]

I agree we have gotten off topic and hopefully this will be my last post about this.

I have been challenged to provide numbers to back up my arguments about Paradox NOT excessively deleting threads. Paradox has almost 400K of threads in all their forums. So having 622 deleted represents 0.02% of the total. So like Shannon stated here, Paradox does not delete threads any more than Matrix does here. And again, these 622 deletations could be for any number of reasons, not just them wanting to stiffle people's opnions as some have claimed here.

I did play HoI1 and 2 and hated both games. The only reason I bought HoI3 is because there is not much else that compares. Fortunately for me, I thought it was greatly improved over the previous versions. It is very interesting to see how different people playing the same series can come to two different viewpoints about the same game. I'm sorry it failed in their view and can understand their disappointment. However, regardless on how strongly one feels about being ignored, ripped off, etc. there is NO excuse to resort to personal attacks or vulgarity. The one time I witnessed someone being banned, both of those conditions were viloated. I am sure that it that occured here, Shannon would also ban the person doing it (I know i would).

[killroyishere]

The difference is Matrixgames puts out great quality games on release and not the slop that Paradox does on release. Matrixgames doesn't make me feel like I just bought into a beta testing routine to fix the game like Paradox does with all their games. All but one game I've bought from Matrixgames worked quite well out of the box wasn't messed over by a horde of bugs and flaws and above all else a horde of CTD's. The one game I did have a problem with they gave me a complete refund as well after singularly working with me 1 on 1 to fix it before that. Try getting Paradox support to do that. When people are burnt with a product that doesn't work they have a right to be mad and let off steam. The other difference between Paradox and Matrixgames is Paradox doesn't give them the opportunity to let off steam it's ban and delete and close threads almost immediately. Even moreso to those that don't or haven't registered their game. Which should be an option without malice imho.

[Numdydar]

I have bought quite a few of Matrix's games and found that they have pretty much the same mix of bugs and poor releases as any other game company. There have been a few games from Matrix that were in even worst shape than HoI3 on release imho (and I will NOT name names). It all depends on what the buyers expectations are when buying the game. You had different lvs of expectations for the games you purchased from Matrix than the ones you bought from Paradox. I of couse had different expectations, which, like you, were met differently depending on the game purchased.

Again like Sammurai, stated, freedom of speech on a forum, does not give you the right to, as you put it, 'to let off steam', without repercussions.

One final note, Paradox did offer refunds on HoI3 to their community too. I am gald that your experience with Matrix has been an improvement over Paradox's. My experience at both companies has been good.

[von altair]

ORIGINAL: abj9562

The thing is Paradox closes accounts and bans for much much less than the statements you are using as examples. While I have not been banned there or anywhere, ever. Paradox does not believe in freedom of speech. They believe in a "limited" form of expression to include moderate disagreement. It is not a secret that they close threads and ban people consistently.

Hah, I just laughed a lot. Just 2 minutes ago I readed my Paradox forum mails and I had Administration mail for me saying: "I gave you 5 Infraction points for TROLLING". What I sayd was: "Paradox takes your money, delivers unworking game, fixes it after paying customers have tested and reported problems."

And yes, sorry, this doesn't belong to here. I just cant resist to comment this one

[Numdydar]

I hate to say it but in my opnion you were trollong. Just because the game failed in your expectations of it does not mean that Paradox ON PURPOSE released an unfinished product. Matter of fact, I was able to play a complete game to 1948 with the initial release 1.0. So the game was definately not 'unworking' as you claimed. It may have had features that disappointed you or you felt were not designed properly, but that does not mean the game did not work. It just meant that you did not like the design or implementation of it. Nor does your level of fustration with the game allow you to accuse a company of fradulent behavior without proof which is what you did. Whether you release it or not, that type of accusation has legal implacations and is not to be taken lightly (by any company) which is why you got the infraction.

If you has said 'I have been very disappointed with the game and wish I had never bought it. It is unfortunate that the player community had to be the ones to discover the issues with the game.' you would not have gotten any infractions nor been accused of trolling. Yet the same sense of fustration and disappointment would have been expressed.

[Skanvak]

Even though I think that Altair is a Troll, and that what he said can be said from Matrix too on at least one game... and that lots of fan boy blindly defend decision makes on Wif.

Numdydar, I find just as surprising that you only post on this forum with the only purpose of defending Paradox?

[Numdydar]

On post 1727 bfonte asked if anyone had played HoI3 and what was it like. I posted an answer and things kind of devolved (as they sometimes do) in to the the back and forth you have seen. I certainly did not plan to be a defender of Paradox, but I am prettty tired of people claiming things that they cannot (or are unwilling to) back up. I would do the same for Matrix if I found someone on another forum complaining about how they 'always' delete threads, etc.

[BallyJ]

Can I ask what any of this has to do with the thread "when"?
I think this is way way off topic ,off thread, and off forum.
Please lets iether finish this or take it somewhere else.
I am a little sick of logging on to read about when MWIF will be out and having to read an argument about a game not even made by matrix.

[killroyishere]

Actually Numdydar is the troll as he's come into a Matrixforum in a Matrixgames thread spouting off his biased opinions of Paradox games. It has no place here. If you want to spout off about Paradox goto the Paradox forums or make your own thread in general discussion forum. Here you are out numbered anyway as you can see by the far superior number of posts here contridicting what you say your experience was. When you have this many people telling you that you are wrong, you're wrong plain and simple. [:D]

I agree with BallyJ he needs to stop and move along and let's get back to When? is WIF going to be released? [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Actually Numdydar is the troll as he's come into a Matrixforum in a Matrixgames thread spouting off his biased opinions of Paradox games. It has no place here. If you want to spout off about Paradox goto the Paradox forums or make your own thread in general discussion forum. Here you are out numbered anyway as you can see by the far superior number of posts here contridicting what you say your experience was. When you have this many people telling you that you are wrong, you're wrong plain and simple. [:D]

I agree with BallyJ he needs to stop and move along and let's get back to When? is WIF going to be released? [:)]

Warspite1

Killroyishere, so you agree with BallyJ that the When thread should not be hijecked by a discussion on other matters and use your post to continue that discussion of other matters........[;)] I like the irony [:D]

[vonpaul]

Almost time for a monthly update

can't come quick enough

[BallyJ]

ORIGINAL: vonpaul

Almost time for a monthly update

can't come quick enough

yes please.
Can we use the when thread for when.
If someone has something else to talk about at least take the trouble to start another thread.
PLEASE

[bo]

A Troll hmmmmmm Trolling hmmm where have I heard that before, I smell sawdust burning [have a good computer smells things too] come on Shannon V. Okeets just for a moment you thought hmmm no cant be he was warned, Oh well I will just check his isp number just to be sure you know these alias users[:-], Gee it wasnt Bo it really was Numdydar saying these things but come on Shannon just for a moment hmmmm. And you thought I was borderline wow this guy makes me look like an angel[:D], but I have turned over a new leaf, caring loving understanding and hopeful and I am eagerly awaiting Febuary's report. Honest Injun[&o]

Bo

[killroyishere]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Actually Numdydar is the troll as he's come into a Matrixforum in a Matrixgames thread spouting off his biased opinions of Paradox games. It has no place here. If you want to spout off about Paradox goto the Paradox forums or make your own thread in general discussion forum. Here you are out numbered anyway as you can see by the far superior number of posts here contridicting what you say your experience was. When you have this many people telling you that you are wrong, you're wrong plain and simple. [:D]

I agree with BallyJ he needs to stop and move along and let's get back to When? is WIF going to be released? [:)]

Warspite1

Killroyishere, so you agree with BallyJ that the When thread should not be hijecked by a discussion on other matters and use your post to continue that discussion of other matters........[;)] I like the irony [:D]

Uh Huh and what part of your recent post is about "When" thread eh? [:D] So you used your post to continue the same discussion now didn't you? [:'(] The irony of it.

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: vonpaul

Almost time for a monthly update

can't come quick enough

I agree. I am hoping we didn't slip again, but if we did so be it. I still prefer for the game to be released only when it is ready for the public.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Actually Numdydar is the troll as he's come into a Matrixforum in a Matrixgames thread spouting off his biased opinions of Paradox games. It has no place here. If you want to spout off about Paradox goto the Paradox forums or make your own thread in general discussion forum. Here you are out numbered anyway as you can see by the far superior number of posts here contridicting what you say your experience was. When you have this many people telling you that you are wrong, you're wrong plain and simple. [:D]

I agree with BallyJ he needs to stop and move along and let's get back to When? is WIF going to be released? [:)]

Warspite1

Killroyishere, so you agree with BallyJ that the When thread should not be hijecked by a discussion on other matters and use your post to continue that discussion of other matters........[;)] I like the irony [:D]

Uh Huh and what part of your recent post is about "When" thread eh? [:D] So you used your post to continue the same discussion now didn't you? [:'(] The irony of it.

Warspite1

?? No, there was nothing ironic about my post - I was not complaining about the thread being "hijacked" while at the same time trying to get the last word on the Numdydar/Paradox discussion - thus inviting further response; further "hijacking".

Anyway, enough of that....I don`t want to be accused of hijacking a thread [;)]- based on previous months, I think Steve`s updates are posted on the 1st monthly or maybe a day or so afterwards.

[killroyishere]

Warspite1

?? No, there was nothing ironic about my post - I was not complaining about the thread being "hijacked" while at the same time trying to get the last word on the Numdydar/Paradox discussion - thus inviting further response; further "hijacking".

Gotta get a chuckle out of those that try to rationalize their hijackings and "off topic" posts vs anyone else's posts. You were not on topic about "When" you're topic was my post on the Paradox discussion. Therefore you are just as guilty of going off topic no if's and's or but's. [:D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Warspite1

?? No, there was nothing ironic about my post - I was not complaining about the thread being "hijacked" while at the same time trying to get the last word on the Numdydar/Paradox discussion - thus inviting further response; further "hijacking".

Gotta get a chuckle out of those that try to rationalize their hijackings and "off topic" posts vs anyone else's posts. You were not on topic about "When" you're topic was my post on the Paradox discussion. Therefore you are just as guilty of going off topic no if's and's or but's. [:D]

Warspite1

Indeed.