MWIF Game Interface Design

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I have created a new form for Replacement Naval units. It isn't quite done yet - I want the Location information to refelct where the current unit is and where the replacement unit will start out.

Warspite1

Steve - yes those additions would be a nice to have. Is it also worth putting in the cost and timescale for completion of the replacement? I may be wrong (and ignore this if I am!) but I thought the cost that appears on the replacement counter is not what it costs a player to replace a unit - which is a lesser sum (I didn`t think it went throught two cycles)?

Also, will this box automatically appear when a replacement is available the first time or is it for the player to check for these as and when he wants to?

[Froonp]

This is one idea that we could keep for MWiF 2 :
Given that the countermix is not restricted by printing counters, we could have multiple versions of most naval counters.
I mean, we could first have the 1939 version of the ship, and then x replacement counters (using the same bitmap) that we could buy or not buy.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This is one idea that we could keep for MWiF 2 :
Given that the countermix is not restricted by printing counters, we could have multiple versions of most naval counters.
I mean, we could first have the 1939 version of the ship, and then x replacement counters (using the same bitmap) that we could buy or not buy.

You mean an upgrade of a naval unit, like when they refit a battleship? In MWiF2, airplanes could also be upgraded, and tanks, etc. a suggestion. I mean you start with the Panzer IIIe, later you upgrade (for a fee) to version Panzer IIIJ. You start with the Spitfire 1, later you upgrade the airplane to Spitfire version 5, etc.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This is one idea that we could keep for MWiF 2 :
Given that the countermix is not restricted by printing counters, we could have multiple versions of most naval counters.
I mean, we could first have the 1939 version of the ship, and then x replacement counters (using the same bitmap) that we could buy or not buy.

You mean an upgrade of a naval unit, like when they refit a battleship? In MWiF2, airplanes could also be upgraded, and tanks, etc. a suggestion. I mean you start with the Panzer IIIe, later you upgrade (for a fee) to version Panzer IIIJ. You start with the Spitfire 1, later you upgrade the airplane to Spitfire version 5, etc.

Well, new or improved planes, new or improved tanks, are already there with the current game.

New / improved planes are here because each year new models arrive in your force pool, and new or improved tanks already exist in some form with the heavy unit rule, that allows to upgrade nearly any WiF FE land units to a "Heavy Weapons" version of the same unit.

Ships on the other hand, are represented 1 per counter in WiF FE, and there is only one counter for that ship for all the game. The game provides replacement ships for some famous upgrades & reconversion (Shinano, Ise & Hyuga), but the computer game could offer the possibility to upgrade any ship.

In WW2, most capital ships had improvement made to them. Sometime more gun power, most of the time more AA.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, new or improved planes, new or improved tanks, are already there with the current game.

New / improved planes are here because each year new models arrive in your force pool, and new or improved tanks already exist in some form with the heavy unit rule, that allows to upgrade nearly any WiF FE land units to a "Heavy Weapons" version of the same unit.

Ships on the other hand, are represented 1 per counter in WiF FE, and there is only one counter for that ship for all the game. The game provides replacement ships for some famous upgrades & reconversion (Shinano, Ise & Hyuga), but the computer game could offer the possibility to upgrade any ship.

In WW2, most capital ships had improvement made to them. Sometime more gun power, most of the time more AA.

I know but that could be modeled in another way. Actually you buy a Spitfire I, but you will never upgrade your onmap fighter to another more modern version. Instead you will buy a more modern version of the same fighter in a late year, like a Spitfire V, and it's random. No, I don't speak about that.

I mean that when the Spitfire V is available, you return your Spitfire I in a repair, or upgrade pool, call it like you want, you pay some BPs, and after a couple of turn it is available for reinforcements as a Spitfire V.

Likewise for a naval unit, for example, I don't know you begin with the WW1 version of a battleship, but from a certain year, you have the option of sending this BB into a refit, construction, or repair pool, and after a certain number of turns, you have the upgraded, refitted version of the BB available as reinforcement.

It could be done with tanks, but rather complicated, the armor corps are not of particular model because of the scale involved I suppose.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: micheljq
I know but that could be modeled in another way. Actually you buy a Spitfire I, but you will never upgrade your onmap fighter to another more modern version. Instead you will buy a more modern version of the same fighter in a late year, like a Spitfire V, and it's random. No, I don't speak about that.

I mean that when the Spitfire V is available, you return your Spitfire I in a repair, or upgrade pool, call it like you want, you pay some BPs, and after a couple of turn it is available for reinforcements as a Spitfire V.

Likewise for a naval unit, for example, I don't know you begin with the WW1 version of a battleship, but from a certain year, you have the option of sending this BB into a refit, construction, or repair pool, and after a certain number of turns, you have the upgraded, refitted version of the BB available as reinforcement.

It could be done with tanks, but rather complicated, the armor corps are not of particular model because of the scale involved I suppose.

Yes, but in reality, Spitfire I are not upgraded to Spitfire V. The squadron that flies Spitfire I gets Spitfire V when they are available, and the old Spitfire I are discarted or given to training squadrons. The air reserve pool and pilot rule models that very well IMO.

The fact that you pick randomly the new counters for the new builts, and that the Spitfire V may be delayed compared to WW2, of may come earlier, IMO models the difference that the WW2 modeled by WiF FE have compared to real WW2.

Ships are different matter, and the replacement rule works well for them. But the paper game only have a chosen amount of replacement counters where the computer game (version 2) could have more.

What we'd need would be for people such as Warspite to identify all the upgrades that were done to ships during WW2, and to estimate the starting 1939 factors and estimate the factors after upgrade.

Maybe only CV and BB should be subject to this, because CL and CA are too small to have their factor vary because of more guns or more armor. I mean, a 4 increased by 10% is a 4.4 when a 8 increased by 10% is 8.8.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: micheljq
I know but that could be modeled in another way. Actually you buy a Spitfire I, but you will never upgrade your onmap fighter to another more modern version. Instead you will buy a more modern version of the same fighter in a late year, like a Spitfire V, and it's random. No, I don't speak about that.

I mean that when the Spitfire V is available, you return your Spitfire I in a repair, or upgrade pool, call it like you want, you pay some BPs, and after a couple of turn it is available for reinforcements as a Spitfire V.

Likewise for a naval unit, for example, I don't know you begin with the WW1 version of a battleship, but from a certain year, you have the option of sending this BB into a refit, construction, or repair pool, and after a certain number of turns, you have the upgraded, refitted version of the BB available as reinforcement.

It could be done with tanks, but rather complicated, the armor corps are not of particular model because of the scale involved I suppose.

Yes, but in reality, Spitfire I are not upgraded to Spitfire V. The squadron that flies Spitfire I gets Spitfire V when they are available, and the old Spitfire I are discarted or given to training squadrons. The air reserve pool and pilot rule models that very well IMO.

The fact that you pick randomly the new counters for the new builts, and that the Spitfire V may be delayed compared to WW2, of may come earlier, IMO models the difference that the WW2 modeled by WiF FE have compared to real WW2.

Ships are different matter, and the replacement rule works well for them. But the paper game only have a chosen amount of replacement counters where the computer game (version 2) could have more.

What we'd need would be for people such as Warspite to identify all the upgrades that were done to ships during WW2, and to estimate the starting 1939 factors and estimate the factors after upgrade.

Maybe only CV and BB should be subject to this, because CL and CA are too small to have their factor vary because of more guns or more armor. I mean, a 4 increased by 10% is a 4.4 when a 8 increased by 10% is 8.8.

Many CL and CA got a heavy upgrade in AA. An upgrade with radar would then be possible.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is the corrected Replacements form.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the corrected Replacements form.

Warspite1

So was I mistaken re the cost / time for the replacement?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the corrected Replacements form.

Does the following line mean that the new location for the replaced ship would be the construnction pool if the ship is replaced?
Replacement Unit Location = Constuction pool

If so, could that be expressed clearer by saying "new location" or "after replacement" or something like that?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the corrected Replacements form.

Does the following line mean that the new location for the replaced ship would be the construnction pool if the ship is replaced?
Replacement Unit Location = Constuction pool

If so, could that be expressed clearer by saying "new location" or "after replacement" or something like that?

I cleaned that up after I posted the screen shot. What the two headings say now are:

Current location is ...

and

Arrives in ...

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the corrected Replacements form.

Does the following line mean that the new location for the replaced ship would be the construnction pool if the ship is replaced?
Replacement Unit Location = Constuction pool

If so, could that be expressed clearer by saying "new location" or "after replacement" or something like that?

I cleaned that up after I posted the screen shot. What the two headings say now are:

Current location is ...

and

Arrives in ...

Awesome! [&o]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here's another new form. I wanted a form dedicated to answering just this question. It doesn't come up very often, which is partially my motivation for making it as simple as possible.

The only time you see this ofrm is when a country has been conquered and the die roll means that a naval unit has a new owner: either captured by the enemy or its control transferred to an ally (as shown here).

One cute thing about this form is that as you click on the different flags, the unit display changes (as shown at the bottom).

[composer99]

This sort of thing can also happen when you overrun face-down naval units.

The example shown seems a bit unusual, though: normally you only get to pick which country gets a naval unit when you are the conquering side.

The Polish destroyer flotilla would automatically be a CW unit, since CW aligns Poland, upon the conquest of Poland, unless it is captured by Germany or sunk.

Unless I am wrong (don't have access to rules or time to look them up online).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

This sort of thing can also happen when you overrun face-down naval units.

The example shown seems a bit unusual, though: normally you only get to pick which country gets a naval unit when you are the conquering side.

The Polish destroyer flotilla would automatically be a CW unit, since CW aligns Poland, upon the conquest of Poland, unless it is captured by Germany or sunk.

Unless I am wrong (don't have access to rules or time to look them up online).

Yes.

I believe the circumstance here is that the Polish unit was bottomed in a port attack, so it was in the repair pool when Poland was conquered.

[macgregor]

I noticed this replacement unit for the Gneisenau, which I imagine assumes the Germans replace the 11" guns with 15-inchers, plus upgrades to the AA guns(re-adjusting the radar for slow moving biplanes) but I could not find anything about this kind of naval upgrade in the rules. Is this something that comes with one of the new addons? Naturally I think it's a great idea. I'm just not aware of it.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: macgregor

I noticed this replacement unit for the Gneisenau, which I imagine assumes the Germans replace the 11" guns with 15-inchers, plus upgrades to the AA guns(re-adjusting the radar for slow moving biplanes) but I could not find anything about this kind of naval upgrade in the rules. Is this something that comes with one of the new addons? Naturally I think it's a great idea. I'm just not aware of it.

Here is the relevant part of RAW that deals with replacement naval units :

***************************************
4.1.4 Replacement naval units (SiF option 9)
A few naval units have a gold box around their availability year. In a later year, replacement units will turn up for these units. Their availability year will also be shown in a gold box.
If the original unit has been removed from the game when the replacement unit arrives, remove the replacement unit from the game.
Otherwise, during any reinforcement step, you can remove the original unit from the game and add the replacement unit.
Put the replacement unit in the force pool if the original unit is either in the force pool or face-down on the production circle; or
Put the replacement unit in the construction pool if the original unit is in:
ï the repair pool,
ï the construction pool,
ï on the map, or
ï face-up on the production circle.
***************************************

Available replacement naval units in WiF FE :
French CL De Grasse replaced by CVL De Grasse in 1940
French CL Guichen replaced by CVL Guichen in 1941
German CA Seydlitz replaced by CVL Seydlitz in 1942
German BB Gneisenau upgunned in 1940
German BB Scharnhorst upgunned in 1941
Japanese BB Hyuga replaced by CV Hyuga in 1942
Japanese BB Ise replaced by CV Ise in 1942
Japanese BB Shinano replaced by CV Shinano (2 possibilities) in 1942
Japanese BB Karyu replaced by CV Karyu (2 possibilities) in 1943

The Schnarhorst & Gneisenau upgrades came up with the latest CS23 in 2007 2 years ago.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I decided it was moderately insane to not include a list of the objective hexes and who controls them - as part of the Victory Totals.

Here is my first pass on this. The scenario is Barbarossa. Notice that some cities appear twice because they are counted twice (e.g., Moscow).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is Fascist Tide, some time towards the beginning of the scenario. I am going to remove the label in the upper left and replace it with the scenario name and turn (e.g., Sept/Oct 1939).

Notice that when a victory hex is awarded to two major powers (e.g., Antwerp) I need to shortened the names of the major powers.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is the other scenario that is limited to half of the world.

Another problem I have is the very long names for some objective hex (e.g., Rabual). I'll have to shorten those too.