MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Nice, a French BB captured by the Italians in an invasion of Malta, and another one destroyed. I think that a French Admiral is now going to be sacked... [;)]

Can't be sacked, sadly. He was on the BB that discovered the sea floor. [;)]
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Edit: I meant to ask . . . if you look at post #159 (I think it is), you can see where the French forces are. Should they or should they not cross into Belgium to try to "bolster" the defensive lines?

[Patton_71]

Interesting question: if using the bottomes ships rule, and the port is captured by the enemy on the turn they were bottomed, do the conquerors automatically capture the bottomed ships?

This happened in a game where the Japanese DOW impulse was a super combined and resulted in the bombing and capture of Pearl Harbor...

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Nice, a French BB captured by the Italians in an invasion of Malta, and another one destroyed. I think that a French Admiral is now going to be sacked... [;)]

Can't be sacked, sadly. He was on the BB that discovered the sea floor. [;)]
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Edit: I meant to ask . . . if you look at post #159 (I think it is), you can see where the French forces are. Should they or should they not cross into Belgium to try to "bolster" the defensive lines?

Yes, they should, provided the front gets shortened. The few hexes to defend, the better fight the French can put up.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Patton_71

Interesting question: if using the bottomes ships rule, and the port is captured by the enemy on the turn they were bottomed, do the conquerors automatically capture the bottomed ships?

This happened in a game where the Japanese DOW impulse was a super combined and resulted in the bombing and capture of Pearl Harbor...

How strangely it sounds, but the answer is no. According to RAW those ships are transferred to the construction pool first and therefore no longer in the port itself.
Personally, I too think that this is strange, since the capture of the port in the same turn would mean that the US wouldn't be able to lift those ships out of the water in time. To use the overrun rule for these things, might be better IMHO. However, that isn't RAW at the moment.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Nice, a French BB captured by the Italians in an invasion of Malta, and another one destroyed. I think that a French Admiral is now going to be sacked... [;)]

Can't be sacked, sadly. He was on the BB that discovered the sea floor. [;)]
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Edit: I meant to ask . . . if you look at post #159 (I think it is), you can see where the French forces are. Should they or should they not cross into Belgium to try to "bolster" the defensive lines?

Yes, they should, provided the front gets shortened. The few hexes to defend, the better fight the French can put up.

It should by a single hex, and it does give a single river hex-side defensive help. But, with the limited number of troops in the area, would it be better to remain where they are and force the Germans to give them the production multiple bonus for having an attack made on their home soil? Rather than not getting it because they are in Belgium?
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At the very least, it might hold off the German assault for a turn for that reason, saving some units from certain death, no?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Red Prince


Can't be sacked, sadly. He was on the BB that discovered the sea floor. [;)]
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Edit: I meant to ask . . . if you look at post #159 (I think it is), you can see where the French forces are. Should they or should they not cross into Belgium to try to "bolster" the defensive lines?

Yes, they should, provided the front gets shortened. The few hexes to defend, the better fight the French can put up.

It should by a single hex, and it does give a single river hex-side defensive help. But, with the limited number of troops in the area, would it be better to remain where they are and force the Germans to give them the production multiple bonus for having an attack made on their home soil? Rather than not getting it because they are in Belgium?
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At the very least, it might hold off the German assault for a turn for that reason, saving some units from certain death, no?

Terrain type is all important for decisions about defending France. Not losing units and not losing hexes (i.e., being pushed back towards Paris) should be your only concerns. Every turn, every impulse, you can delay the Germans from taking Paris is crucial for all sorts of reasons. Production bonuses for the French are worth nothing - most likely any units France builds will arrive after France has fallen.

Preventing the Geramns from using the Blitz CRT is a crucial factor in building a defensive line. Otherwise the Germans are likely to advance 2 hexes towards Paris in a single impulse. When deciding about losses, the death of the French airforce is much less important than the death of French land units. Focus on preserving the French army and giving up as few non-clear hexes as possible. Losing British units is preferable to losing French units (although the Commonwealth player never sees it that way). At some point it may be necessary to abandon the Maginot line - but the units you have assigned to its defense are the right ones and there is very little to be gained in trying to shift them west late in the campaign.

[Centuur]

At least three stacks of German units were disorganised, following the attack on Liège. Together with the few units I saw last page, I'm getting the impression that the Germans only got two stacks left which can make an attack in Belgium, provided the stacks attacking Liège are still disorganised. Since the HQ has been used to reorganised German reserve units, I think they are still not able to move.
Therefore, I would advance, thus delaying the German attack, because he can't move those disorganised stacks blocking movement from east to west to the French front until next turn.
So, the front is going to stall, by this French action.
Now, if Gort is finished with his afternoon tea and comes ashore in France with the BEF, things aren't that bad at all. After all: winter is coming...

I forgot one thing: double stack the hex west of Brussels, since that's the one Adolf might attack, if there's only one French unit there...

[Red Prince]

Terrain type is all important for decisions about defending France. Not losing units and not losing hexes (i.e., being pushed back towards Paris) should be your only concerns. Every turn, every impulse, you can delay the Germans from taking Paris is crucial for all sorts of reasons. Production bonuses for the French are worth nothing - most likely any units France builds will arrive after France has fallen.

Preventing the Geramns from using the Blitz CRT is a crucial factor in building a defensive line. Otherwise the Germans are likely to advance 2 hexes towards Paris in a single impulse. When deciding about losses, the death of the French airforce is much less important than the death of French land units. Focus on preserving the French army and giving up as few non-clear hexes as possible. Losing British units is preferable to losing French units (although the Commonwealth player never sees it that way). At some point it may be necessary to abandon the Maginot line - but the units you have assigned to its defense are the right ones and there is very little to be gained in trying to shift them west late in the campaign.

Thought I should give you a current view of the actual layout of the area. I was going to try to edit in what France has in each hex, but I am just not up to it at the moment. Anyway, it looks to me like the 4-3 INF should move NW, and the 6-4 INF to the east (possibly with whoever is under him -- can't remember right now -- AA, I think). This makes the Maginot Line weaker, but places a unit in the forest hex nearby, with only disorganized Germans there at the moment.

An HQ is under the FTR, and Lille is hoping for the turn to end to add a unit here. Perhaps the Calais crew should head east (both are 5-Factor units), and the stack SE of Lille is strong, with ART and . . . something else, the MOT? Don't know if they should move into Belgium or not, and if so, where to?
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Edit: I should add that Gort is sitting on his thumb in Portsmouth. He reorged both White Print units in order to get them to Gibraltar.

[Orm]

I would ask for a ground strike on the panzer army in Antwerpen. Preferably by the CW air force but I am not sure they have any bombers available. Otherwise I would seriously consider using the French bomber.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would ask for a ground strike on the panzer army in Antwerpen. Preferably by the CW air force but I am not sure they have any bombers available. Otherwise I would seriously consider using the French bomber.

There is one CW bomber available with a 3-Factor, but it has a 1 for defense, so it would need the Hurricane backup. Actually, the French bomber would also need its FTR backup. The problem is that besides the German FTR, there is also a Heavy AA next door.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would ask for a ground strike on the panzer army in Antwerpen. Preferably by the CW air force but I am not sure they have any bombers available. Otherwise I would seriously consider using the French bomber.

There is one CW bomber available with a 3-Factor, but it has a 1 for defense, so it would need the Hurricane backup. Actually, the French bomber would also need its FTR backup. The problem is that besides the German FTR, there is also a Heavy AA next door.

I counted on fighter back up. Launch air raid! Bombs away!

Edit: CW should use its air force for the ground strike. France can save its bomber for a while.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would ask for a ground strike on the panzer army in Antwerpen. Preferably by the CW air force but I am not sure they have any bombers available. Otherwise I would seriously consider using the French bomber.

There is one CW bomber available with a 3-Factor, but it has a 1 for defense, so it would need the Hurricane backup. Actually, the French bomber would also need its FTR backup. The problem is that besides the German FTR, there is also a Heavy AA next door.

I counted on fighter back up. Launch air raid! Bombs away!

Edit: CW should use its air force for the ground strike. France can save its bomber for a while.

I agree. Even with the intercepting German fighter, this is a good action. If it succeeds, it will mean the end of the German advance for the moment.
Move the fast French MTN into the Western Ardennes, and the rest of the French forces one hex east, with a double stack west of Brussels.
Don't move the 4-3 into the Luxemburg hex. This hex can be attacked by far to many German forces in the next turn. The unit will die, without getting you anywhere. Simply move him directly west to free another unit to get into Belgium.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Patton_71

Interesting question: if using the bottomes ships rule, and the port is captured by the enemy on the turn they were bottomed, do the conquerors automatically capture the bottomed ships?

This happened in a game where the Japanese DOW impulse was a super combined and resulted in the bombing and capture of Pearl Harbor...

Option 18: (Bottomed ships) when applying results against units in a port, an ‘X’ result (or 2 ‘D’ results) only destroys the target if you roll less than or equal to half its defense factor (the second roll if the unit is destroyed by 2 ‘D’ results). If you roll between half and the full defense factor, put the unit in the construction pool instead of the force pool. A carrier plane (CVPiF/SiF option 56) on a bottomed CV (PiF Option 28: and its pilot) is still destroyed. Convoy points can never be bottomed —they are always destroyed.

Sunk (< 1/2 defense factor) vs. Damaged (=> 1/2 defense factor)

Sunken ships are considered irreparable and are put in the force pool to be entirely built from scratch.

Bottomed ships are therefore considered damaged hence easier to refloat and repair and are put in the construction pool.

Since turns are 2 months long you have no idea when the actual landing took place or what has occurred between the port attack and the landing.


How many ships were sunk, captured, and re-based by the over run?


Battleship Division 1
Battleship Nevada (BB-36) 02/12/42 refloated and underwent temporary repairs at Pearl Harbor 04/42 steamed to Puget Sound Navy Yard for a major overhaul and repairs
Battleship Pennsylvania (BB-38) 12/20/41 sailed for San Francisco
Battleship Arizona (BB-39) 12/01/42 struck from the Naval Vessel Register

Battleship Division 2
Battleship Oklahoma (BB-37) Preparations for righting the overturned hull took under eight months. The actual righting took under four months, from 03/0843 to 06/16/43
Battleship Tennessee (BB-43) Was trapped at her berth for ten days before being freed, and four days later she set sail for the West Coast to be repaired.
Battleship California (BB-44) 03/25/42 California was refloated and dry-docked at Pearl Harbor for repairs. 06/07/42 she departed under her own power for Puget Sound Navy Yard.

Battleship Division 4
Battleship Maryland (BB-46) 12/30/41 the ship entered the repair yard at Puget Sound Navy Yard. 02/26/42 not only repaired, but modernized and ready for service.
Battleship West Virginia (BB-48) 05/26/43 departed Pearl Harbor for the west coast and a complete rebuilding at the Puget Sound Navy Yard



Note: most of the ships left under their own power they probably could have been towed much sooner if necessary.

[Centuur]

True, however if the Japanese were really into capturing the area, I don't think all those ships had been able to sail for repairs. So, using the overrun rule for damaged and bottomed ships in port would correct this IMHO.

[Red Prince]

I know that a lot of you watch this thread with great interest. I was surprised to see over 300 hits 2 days ago when I ran through the 4th and 5th impusles. Even yesterday, when I was barely active, there were still nearly 200 hits on this thread. Frankly, you can't know how much that means to me.

Those of you who have been watching this thread probably know I've been suffering from pneumonia this month. Yesterday I was back in the hospital emergency room, because my anitbiotic regimen was completed and I was still feeling congested in my left lung. More to the point, my entire left side, from my shoulder to the lower ribs, was in fairly constant pain, and each time I coughed, hiccuped, or did anything else jarring, the pain became so intense that I've described it as a railway spike being driven through my chest, right about at the level of the heart. This pain was both front and back, and I was told that if things like this seemed to get worse once the antibiotics were done, I should either see my primary care physician or come back to the hospital. It was a weekend, so I went to the ER.

You'll be happy to know (most of you [;)] ) that the xrays yesterday showed the pneumonia is actually gone.
Yay!!!
The pain I am having is simply the result of too many weeks of abuse to the muscles and ribs, caused by coughing violently so regularly. No clue why it is limited to my left side, but I'm glad it isn't both sides. Unfortunately, I am not as young as I was when I had pneumonia the first time, and this was a more severe case, so the recovery time is going to be longer. How long, I don't know. Another month is probably a good estimate, though.

This is why I'm so glad that, based on the number of hits this thread gets on a daily basis, that you see it as an important part of the development of MWiF. You probably also know that I had been spending a lot of time each day on the game, and had plans in motion that led to my being named as the 2nd Moderator for this forum and the Developent forum. For the time being, and I wish it were not this way, I simply cannot (and should not) spend the time on MWiF that I intended before my illness began. However, like you, I am now addicted to this game, and I also can't keep it out of my system completely. My solution is to do the best I can to continue this AAR in order to continue showing what a full game looks like in what will eventually be the initial release of MWiF.

I still intend to continue as a full beta-tester beyond this, but my involvement will necessarily be limited to a lesser capacity than in the previous months. There are, in fact, some very exciting things happening right now, particularly in the areas of Supply and Vichy interactions. Some are giving Steve headaches, and some are brilliantly easy to execute. That's par for the course (meaning "average or expected" for those unfamiliar with that phrase).

Given the altered circumstances -- and the fact that I am now accepting the situation for what it is -- I have decided to try to be much more open with my "Choose your own Adventure" theme. That means that if you, as group, would prefer to see Vichy declared, rather than France conquered, I'll at least consider it. It means a more difficult time closing the Med (I think), but you are the interested parties, so I'll (try to) let you choose. Sorry, Centuur, but I still don't intend to DOW the USSR with Japan just yet. [:)]

As I've mentioned before, there are still some known bugs that I have to remember to work around -- or Italy would never have taken Malta so easily -- and I'll have to consult with the other beta-testers to make sure I'm not setting myself up to run into those bugs and ruin this for all of us. Primarily, that means making sure I know what's going on with the supply situation (which you know confuses me at times) and consulting with Rob W (Cad908) about the current eradication of all problems related to Vichy. He has been our Vichy-guru, driving himself nuts making sure everything works as intended by the rules, and so he will know. That is, if you decide Vichy is the option I should choose.

On the Vichy note, I am still very interested in the co-operation problems that may result between the CW and an incompletely-conquered France, which is why I am so interested in a non-Vichy game. But, as I said before, if I am the only holdout, I'll try to be open about it.

For now, I think that covers about everything. I'm going to try to take care of as many of my previous responsibilities as possible -- as my health permits. I hope to get at least one impulse completed each day. You may have noticed that I like to show as much of what is going on with the map as possible (and I know that's your favorite part, really), but that takes time to put together, so there may be days in the coming weeks when I just have to ask for opinions about "what happens next" rather than actually doing anything.

Summary: I am getting well, and I am very encouraged by the support I've seen by the involvement of everyone who views this thread. To quote one of my favorite commercials of all time: "Thank you for your support."

-Aaron

[Klydon]

As I have mentioned once or twice elsewhere, that there are now AAR's for this game is absolutely encouraging to us as a community because it shows real progress is being made with the game. There is now tangible proof, so of course there will be interest. [:)]

One other related note. Take care of yourself and get yourself healthy. You are not worth much to the rest of us if you become a casualty. [;)]

On the topic of Vichy, I think it is tough to go into the campaign making a decision one way or another. There are a ton of other varibles at work. The Vichy option gives you a quick way to end things in France and move on to the next target.

Some considerations: Is Uncle Joe busy doing some adventurism someplace that leaves him vulnerable to a quick end to the war in France? What time of year is it? Have the British pushed "all in" for the defense of France? What is the state of the Med? What is the Axis overall game plan when it comes to Russia? (Attack in 1941 or 1942?). Are the Axis going for Gibraltar? (No Vichy would help in this case). Some of these questions have been answered, but most have not at this point.

[Centuur]

But Red Prince, I know you don't want to DOW the USSR with the Japanese. I would, but it's you're game you're running. [:'(]
Personally, I can't wait for MWIF to get unto the market, so I can trash you're USSR around the game board with the Axis, if you're again making this mistake... [;)]

And what creating Vichy is about: if France is doing a good defense, he should try to put at least 2 or 3 units into Toulouse after the fall of Paris. Toulouse is a very, very difficult hex to capture by the Axis. That's the reason I don't like the way some players are using the French army to make attacks and try to take some German Corps with them after the fall of Paris. It's better to withdraw to Toulouse with all units still capable to do so. It makes a move into Spain for Germany more difficult. If the Euroaxis don't want to create Vichy, they'll pay for it.

[Joseignacio]

But Centuur, if Vichy is declared, these units (if French) inmediately dissapear. That's what I did at the EWC but with a CW stack...

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

But Centuur, if Vichy is declared, these units (if French) inmediately dissapear. That's what I did at the EWC but with a CW stack...

I wouldn't do so. The CW is usually low on land units, and should have garrisons in some parts of the world to at least slow down Italian expansion there (Kenya/Tanganyika/Sudan/Egypt/Malta/Gibraltar).
Add to this a defense for a surprise Sealion in the UK, there is probably only a small force of CW land units available for this tactic. If CW units are in Toulouse, you cannot have any French units to defend you're defensive line towards the sea (Bayonne/Bordeaux). So you need at least 6 UK corps there (both HQ's included).
You're goal should be to hamper a close the med operation. This means that Bayonne (HQ) and the hex SE of Bordeaux (2 corps) are the hexes the CW should hold. Toulouse and the other hex can be held by the French. Now, if the Germans want to go into Spain, they have a problem. They cannot create Vichy, since that would mean that the approach to Spain is to small and the CW is blocking it. If they won't create Vichy, they only have the eastern part of the front to attack Spain or they have a CW/French defensive position to take into account, with always in supply units at Toulouse... Especially when there are still some French land units on the production spiral to arrive in Bordeaux...
I am not saying it is an impossible defense to crack (with a large Luftwaffe around), but it still isn't very nice, from the axis point of view.
British units in Toulouse might be getting teleported out of France if Vichy is created, and if Bayonne is empty or only held by one CW unit at that point, things aren't looking good at all.
Or are you going to empty Egypt and not stop the Italians there?

[composer99]

Toulouse is in the area that becomes German controlled in the event of Vichy declaration. If memory serves CW units there will stay.