WitE 2

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: Karri

Can we get a word on the AI? I am yet to play WitE against human opponent, and don't really want to either. The AI however pretty much sucks, and there is no way of really modifying it. Are there any changes in this regard?

A lot of time has been spent on the AI in WitE2 (more than in WitE). However, the AI is not a human. The attacking AI always needs help level adjustments, more than the defending AI. We believe that the AI has to be decent, and Gary spends the bulk of his time working on the AI, and he has a lot of experience at it. But making an AI as good as a good human without any help level adjustments is more than can be done (without cheating). Of course you should turn on full fog of war. Some games improve their AI by having it cheat in ways that are very difficult to see. We try to avoid this, at least at the normal play level, but at the higher levels it starts to get some advantages, although not advantages that it can abuse in the same way a player might. We think the AI makes for a good game, but over time as the player gets more experienced with the game, you have to crank up the help level or find human opponents. By that time you've probably invested a lot of time learning and enjoying the game. Your mileage may vary.

[eskuche]

Time and competition nervousness are two reasons one might not want to play against another human. That being said, it's instructive to play against oneself (with alcohol between player swaps perhaps).

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: king171717

ORIGINAL: Karri

Can we get a word on the AI? I am yet to play WitE against human opponent, and don't really want to either. The AI however pretty much sucks, and there is no way of really modifying it. Are there any changes in this regard?

playing against another person is so much better. Why are u not wanting too?

I want to play a game, not run an Excel spreadsheet workshop. Playing against the AI is more of a beer&pretzels thing, I don't have to optimise every last thing, do kabuki dances with air bases, meticulously go through TOE settings etc etc etc

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

A lot of time has been spent on the AI in WitE2 (more than in WitE). However, the AI is not a human. The attacking AI always needs help level adjustments, more than the defending AI. We believe that the AI has to be decent, and Gary spends the bulk of his time working on the AI, and he has a lot of experience at it. But making an AI as good as a good human without any help level adjustments is more than can be done (without cheating). Of course you should turn on full fog of war. Some games improve their AI by having it cheat in ways that are very difficult to see. We try to avoid this, at least at the normal play level, but at the higher levels it starts to get some advantages, although not advantages that it can abuse in the same way a player might. We think the AI makes for a good game, but over time as the player gets more experienced with the game, you have to crank up the help level or find human opponents. By that time you've probably invested a lot of time learning and enjoying the game. Your mileage may vary.

It is possible to give some options for modding? WitE doesn't really allow for any fine tuning.

[Joel Billings]

You can't mod the AI, but you can use the editor to adjust things in a particular scenario. I'm not saying it's easy to do, but it can be done. If you play beer & pretzels, the Soviet AI should give you a run for your money, especially if you're willing to give it some morale help.

As one that grew up playing both sides in board games, I can understand the lack of interest in doing in on the computer. I've tested against the AI and against human players. Human players are much more fun but require much more time if you want to play it against a strong opponent. Part of playing against a human is choosing someone at your play level, but even so, I realize that many only have time and interest in the AI and that's why we spend so much time on it. I still enjoy playing against the AI, but I'm obviously biased.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Karri

ORIGINAL: king171717

ORIGINAL: Karri

Can we get a word on the AI? I am yet to play WitE against human opponent, and don't really want to either. The AI however pretty much sucks, and there is no way of really modifying it. Are there any changes in this regard?

playing against another person is so much better. Why are u not wanting too?

I want to play a game, not run an Excel spreadsheet workshop. Playing against the AI is more of a beer&pretzels thing, I don't have to optimise every last thing, do kabuki dances with air bases, meticulously go through TOE settings etc etc etc

[:D] That is a fair comment.

But you can match up with players who prefer a casual game too. Two people I knew who played without all that intensity asked me if there was anyone who can play like that and I matched them up. And they are having a great time. So it is possible to play another person without going the Full Monty.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: Karri

I want to play a game, not run an Excel spreadsheet workshop. Playing against the AI is more of a beer&pretzels thing, I don't have to optimise every last thing, do kabuki dances with air bases, meticulously go through TOE settings etc etc etc

You don't need to do any of those things. There are players who do them and enjoy them, just like there are players who prefer a much more casual game. You just need to look for them.

[edski]

Long time player since the days of War in Russia (Last Century) Been watching the forum for a long time and now wish to offer my humble opinion.

PC power has progressed since the days of DOS and more sophisticated algorithms have been developed to model logistics and game play in a more accurate and realistic manner. WITE & WITW are the best and most accurate games around. My hat is off the the programmers for such outstanding programs. As PC power has increased ( and I remember the days of punch cards), computers are now able to do much more since the days of WITE when released nearly 10 years ago.

I appreciate the WITE2 engine is an enhanced version of WITW and close to the BETA release with the air combat still being refined, but the following tweaks would be nice on the air side

wish list

air units in the west have the option to train with modest resource use, rest & refit with minimal resource use, and fight the WITW AI once the allied bombing campaign starts to protect factories. If the allies take a blood nose from strong fighters presence in the west, allied bombing of factories would be delayed until losses are made good. The Germans have limited resources and play fire brigade moving assets to stabilize one front at the expense on another.

Being able to manage the fighter/bomber pool with some options would be nice (training/transfer etc)


Cannot wait until WITE2 is released. Until then I await with bated breath until the much anticipated release.


[&o][&o][&o]

[OberGeneral]

ORIGINAL: edski

Long time player since the days of War in Russia (Last Century) Been watching the forum for a long time and now wish to offer my humble opinion.

PC power has progressed since the days of DOS and more sophisticated algorithms have been developed to model logistics and game play in a more accurate and realistic manner. WITE & WITW are the best and most accurate games around. My hat is off the the programmers for such outstanding programs. As PC power has increased ( and I remember the days of punch cards), computers are now able to do much more since the days of WITE when released nearly 10 years ago.

I appreciate the WITE2 engine is an enhanced version of WITW and close to the BETA release with the air combat still being refined, but the following tweaks would be nice on the air side

wish list

air units in the west have the option to train with modest resource use, rest & refit with minimal resource use, and fight the WITW AI once the allied bombing campaign starts to protect factories. If the allies take a blood nose from strong fighters presence in the west, allied bombing of factories would be delayed until losses are made good. The Germans have limited resources and play fire brigade moving assets to stabilize one front at the expense on another.

Being able to manage the fighter/bomber pool with some options would be nice (training/transfer etc)


Cannot wait until WITE2 is released. Until then I await with bated breath until the much anticipated release.


[&o][&o][&o]

OMG! Punched cards. You took me back to the late 60's to early 70's!!

I agree with you that the air war needs some tweaking. It is a very problematic part of these games IMHO.
Constantly having to move air assets as the front advances is annoying to say the least.

[mooreshawnm]

Speaking of WiR (and Western Front)...I MUCH preferred the old air system to either WitE or (especially) WitW.

[edski]

With each successive generation of computers, the pure processing grunt has made quantum leaps with the level of detail the game can achieve. The air war in WITW is quite impressive with the level of detail and its impact of the land warfare mechanics.

For the purist who loves to micro manage everything (such as myself), there are never enough levers to manipulate, but at the same time there needs to be limits so to keep the game manageable and playable.


There will always be too much detail or not enough and therefore it is impossible to make the perfect game to satisfy everybody, but in my humbe opinion WITE in 2010 was incredible as was WITW and i'm sure WITE2 will raise the bar again.


The air war in the west was constantly chewing up resources (aircraft and air crew) as the allied resources grew, a limited management stance on an aggressive or defensive posture against allied aircraft would use up more or less German resources and potentially Allied air power growth. It is robbing Peter to pay Paul and eventually the allies will overwhelm the limited resources of the Germans but it is another lever to pull as the Germans play fire brigade across both fronts as historically was the case.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: edski

...

air units in the west have the option to train with modest resource use, rest & refit with minimal resource use, and fight the WITW AI once the allied bombing campaign starts to protect factories. If the allies take a blood nose from strong fighters presence in the west, allied bombing of factories would be delayed until losses are made good. The Germans have limited resources and play fire brigade moving assets to stabilize one front at the expense on another.

Being able to manage the fighter/bomber pool with some options would be nice (training/transfer etc)...

WiTE2 has the concept of Theatre boxes (see Joel and Red Lancer's posts in this thread) to capture the rest of the war. Some of these are passive, such as the Soviet commitment to the Far East, others model the largely static low intensity wars such as in Finland or the partisan war.

The war between Germany and the W Allies is in a few boxes and one holds the strategic airwar (& the post June 44 Allied offensives).

You can leave these off, and then historical transfers of assets will take place and, mostly, the wider war will proceed as historical - there is a random element and if you start to take really heavy losses vs the Soviets that will leave less replacements for the West. Alternatively, you can actively manage these, choosing what to send/draw back and when.

[Jsto0033]

Hi forum
I´m an old gamer, who, for lot of years ago, have played the board games Fire in the East, Scorched Earth and so on... I would like to ask, if I should wait for WitE2 or buy the old produkt now for full price...
Best regards

[Zovs]

Personally I’d wait for WITE to go on sale, you just missed some 30-60% off deals or just wait for WITE2 it’s much better than the first by far.

[Jsto0033]

Ok. Thanks for your fast answer…

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Pay full price. It's worth it.

[joelmar]

@Bozo_the_Clown

Pay full price. It's worth it.

I bought mine 1 year ago full price, and the cost per play hour is now somewhere under 10 cents and goes ever shrinking!!! lol!

[tyronec]

I concur, if you are going to play the game you can easily get your moneys worth many times over before WITE2 comes out.

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: Jsto0033

Hi forum
I´m an old gamer, who, for lot of years ago, have played the board games Fire in the East, Scorched Earth and so on... I would like to ask, if I should wait for WitE2 or buy the old produkt now for full price...
Best regards

Well, we'd obviously love it if you were to pay full price now and then decide to pay full price at some point for WitE2. There are sales that happen so if you are willing to wait you can get WitE at a discount. Morvael and Denniss have done an amazing job updating WitE over the years, so there's a lot of play time and enjoyment to be found in WitE. We think WitE2 will be something that will also provide a lot of play time and good value for the money, but they don't have to be exclusive of each other. There is a lot to learn and explore in WitE, and much of your experience with it will carry over into WitE2. Tyronec is one of our most experienced WitE2 testers (in fact he's created the first turn AI scripts for many of our scenarios), and I agree with him on this.

[Jsto0033]

Hi Joel Billings, tyronec, joelmar, Bozo_the_Clown and Zovs. Thanks for all your comment. I have now bought the game and downloaded it [8D]. Once again thanks you all for all the replies...
Best regards
Jens Chr.

[joelmar]

Enjoy!