INFORMATION ON SPWAW VER2.0

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 4:53 pm

very cool! Big list of fixes/improvements

cant wait! (and it even wont mess with my glorious foray into the land of ancient temples)

one question; any updates on the AFV vs AFV msg delay/pause issue?

same for the aircraft/AA; hav'nt observed the latter enough yet to form an opinion but was curious as to what you thought so far.

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 5:08 pm

Thanks a great deal guys, so much for yard work any time soon. My lawn is knee high now.
Panther.

AStott · Post by **AStott** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 5:39 pm

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
Holding down the ?.? key should now cause the VCR replay to abort, in midstream. Note that you should hold the key down until the current packet has been displayed, at which time the game will stop the VRC and resume play.

Well, as nice as that is for canceling when you accidentally hit the VCR button, it would be even nicer to be able to abort a single message in the replay and move on to the next. Just something to think about for the future...

When replaying the enemies last turn on the VCR, the buttons to the left disappeared as they should, but moving the mouse over the region caused some to reappear. This should no longer occur.

Hmmm... I'm actually sad to see this fixed. The reason is that moving your mouse over these buttons would cause the currently displayed message to disappear. This would speed up the replay, while still allowing time to read the longer messages...

All in all, actually a whole lot of really nice changes/fixes here. I REALLY like what I'm seeing. Thanks! Keep up the great work, and I hope you'll consider making a few more interface changes to improve the speed of play.

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 6:01 pm

A most impressive list!

Some questions:

Do you plan adding unit descriptions and the missing pictures in this patch?

I second that the message delay issue would be nice to see improved, either by somehow enabling pause-key, giving the tank firing messages a constant delay (2 secs maybe) independent of all other messages, or make messages go away with a mouse click/move so you can have enough delay to read the tank msgs but wouldn't have to wait for rallies etc so long.

Would it be possible to automate turning off Fast artillery before an airstrike and back on after it? Detailed air strikes are real eye candy, as you can see them changing/acquiring targets on the "fly".

I guess abandoned tanks can't be fired at yet since it's not on the list?

It's great that AI won't drive into buildings any more... maybe fires could also be a no-no for infantry?

Can I set Battle length somehow? If I remember correctly, in SPWW2 this could be set in deployment phase by pressing period.

[This message has been edited by Kharan (edited 06-09-2000).]

Von Rom · Post by **Von Rom** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 6:01 pm

To all you guys at Matrix:

******** TWO THUMBS UP ********

Keep up the excellent work! I'm looking forward to playing many of your up-coming games

------------------
A King Tiger can give you a definite edge...

[This message has been edited by Von Rom (edited 06-09-2000).]

Seth · Post by **Seth** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 6:03 pm

Thank god for your game! It's all I can play after ripping the tray right out of my girlfriend's crappy CD drive with a fork last night while attempting to rescue Age of Empires II. Time for a new PC, I guess. Thanks for all the fun. Hopefully, when I replace the computer, it will solve the crashing problems. It seems like I'm the only one having them. I get them all the time (once every minute or so!) when moving units in generated campaigns, once when moving a unit in a scenario, and once while picking targets in a generated battle. I could send in my info, if I can figure out what kind of garbage it is. It's homebuilt.

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 6:51 pm

DANGER! DANGER! WILL ROBINSON, THERE MAY BE A BED-WETTER ON THE PREMISES!

I agree with Tombstone's desire for platoon units instead, however....... Why did I 'really' like SP3 scale over SP1? Becuase I had more units to control in core. I said, "More units". Well, with the patch there will be more units. SP1 had the smallest amount of units. SPWAW v.1 had more than that, but not much more, and SP3 had the most, but now with the patch, I may be mistaken in saying this, but with SPWAW v.2 will probably have the possibility of the most units in core, more even than SP3.

I liked SP3, as well, for the 'almost-divisional' feel to the game, but there was a drawback, and I had to play SPWAW to find that. What was that? In SP3, each unit was a platoon. Let's use an example of 5 tanks. When playing campaign, perhaps you got one destroyed with four remaining. When that destroyed tank was replaced, you wouldn't lose all that much experience for a new crew, so that if the unit of 5 tanks lost one, you would maybe be looking at a Gerry platoon's experience being cut down from 90 to say 87; not much of a loss. What does that do? Well, after playing this scale for a while, it's obvious to me, it makes your individual tank losses more personal. So, though I could still play SP3 scale, I will have more units, and it will be personal.

Oh, just one last thing, and this really gets personal. If we played SP3 level, we wouldn't be able to bail the crews out of tanks. If one of them were heavily damaged, you'd have to abandon all tanks to save the one. More units and saved crews, what a deal!!!

[This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited 06-09-2000).]

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 7:19 pm

I have a question. In v.1 it seems to me as though when a crew abandons a vehicle, that the crew must be slain in order to receive credit for a kill. I'm not sure, but I would think a destroyed tank, in which there are survivors, would ring up a kill, and the crew would be an entirely new kill, if slain. So, in v.2 is it still this way and is my analysis correct?

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 7:48 pm

I've learned after many beta testing experiences that the public provides the best beta test group anywhere. You guys are all that and more.

I've always thought that in-house beta testing was of limited usefullness. Of course, I was a public beta tester so I might have been biased

.

I have to say that it's FANTASTIC to see developers listening to their audience. I can't tell you how frustrating it used to be to tell developers that something was wrong or needed to be addressed and getting blown off, or told it wasn't gonna happen - and then see the game reamed after release because those issues were unaddressed.

In looking at the v2.0 list, I see a LOT of items that we thought needed to be looked are have been, and problems usually found and corrected. I can only express my personal appreciation and strongest admiration for this kind of reponse from a developer; both for realizing that the game may need to be tweaked in the first place and for at least examining issues we think might be off.

The improvements to the arty especially tickle me

.

BZ, guys...BZ.

We are gamers. We have been abused and cheated too. We know the feeling. We are doing our best to avoid giving you that feeling.

And ya'll are doing that in spades.

Of course you realize that by responding to feedback this way and improving the game, you'll never be allowed into the Developer's Union...

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 7:54 pm

Charles22: I'm not very sure but I think the only way to get a tank kill score is to blow one up. So if a crew vacates a tank, the only score you will get is in infantry casualties, IF you destroy the crew.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Charles22:
I have a question. In v.1 it seems to me as though when a crew abandons a vehicle, that the crew must be slain in order to receive credit for a kill. I'm not sure, but ...

I am sure as I tested this. If a crew bails out of a tank (because you destroyed it or damaged it) you do not get a kill for it. When the crew is killed, the kill is credited. You can not get two kill credits, one for the tank and one for the crew.

------------------
An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

Fishu · Post by **Fishu** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 10:13 pm

Did I hear right, Finnish EXE file... wow, I am impressed

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Jun 09, 2000 10:28 pm

Belaja, you said you bet the Finnish translation was not done by someone from our group. You lose that bet.

Mr Pentti Perttula, who has been a part of my Raider crew, and who is Finnish, did the translation.

We call him "Ambush." If you wish, check with him. He is a great person.

ambush@sci.fi

A couple of other staff members have also contributed. I personally speak and write Spanish fluently. Frank Donati knows French very well.

Massimo Rocca, one of our chief testers, is Italian. Massimo, "The Mad Italian," lives in Italy.

Klaus Mueller Buschbaum, one who has helped with the artwork, is doing the German translation. He lives in Germany.
And so it goes. We might fool you

Our organization, just like our supporters, is world wide.

Wild Bill

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

[This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited 06-09-2000).]

Antonescu · Post by **Antonescu** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 3:41 am

Originally posted by Spunkgibbon:

And I'm not even Catholic...

[/B]

Let's be more considerate of one another than to post this kind of crap.

Thanks

A.

"Take it easy big Joe, these people have sensitive feelings ya'know!" ---Oddball

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 3:58 am

Originally posted by Kharan:
Charles22: I'm not very sure but I think the only way to get a tank kill score is to blow one up. So if a crew vacates a tank, the only score you will get is in infantry casualties, IF you destroy the crew.

However, you can actually get 2 kills when you destroy an AFV... If you destroy the AFV (i.e., it blows up) the unit that caused the destruction gets a kill credit. And if one or more crew survive the destruction of their AFV, then they can be killed too (and even by a different firing unit if you choose) and the unit that causes the destruction of said crew gets a kill credit, too.

Unfortunately, you do not get credit for shooting down aircraft (which has always bothered me).

And sometimes indirect fire will destroy units that you don't know about because they were hidden. In this case, the artillery unit that fired the round which eliminated the hidden unit will usually get credit for the kill. I say usually because I'm aware of instances when hidden units destroyed by indirect fire were not credited to the destroying artillery. I think this happens when there was more than one hidden unit in the hex but I'm not sure.

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 4:29 am

victorhauser: Yes, I thought that was correct, that each tank is 'potentially' 2 kills.

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 5:14 am

For me what I liked about Sp3 was the size and scope of the battle. I really liked the sub-operational aspects to game. It took a long time to get from one place on the map to another, so if your plans weren't adequate to the task you'd be punished for it. At this scale, even making the map larger can't compare with the 4x size increase in the sp3 scale. Battle's could be won or lost because such and such tank company was sent via the southern road and couldn't take part in an important engagement. It did a really neat blending of operational and tactical gameplay. A bigger map and more units (not to mention raw improvement on the mechanics) would enhance this particular aspect of the game a lot I think. I don't know why I'm talking about this. It's just depressing me.

Oh about the animation button... My problem with the animatiom button being absent is that even with all settings at their fastest it still takes a good amount of time for a stuart to fire the 37mm and all it's machine guns five times, especially if it's gonna take the whole platoon all it's firepower to make sure that damn infantry squad in the rough hex, while enrtenched wont do anything nasty to that highly experienced tank that was lucky not to die in the assault as one foolishly drives about the 'apparently' empty battlefield...

Tomo

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 8:33 am

My experience with SPWAW is that the pace of operations is a little slower than previous SP games. I see this as a good thing since I always felt units scampered around SP1 and SP2 battlefields a bit too easily. I also preferred SP3 over SP1 and SP2, but SPWAW is a much better game than SP3. (Especially the modern version where Apache helicopters ruined the play balance so badly... We used to play with enemy tank toughness set to 250% and still the Apaches would dominate. But I digress.)

Yes, the mechanics resolve themselves more slowly in SPWAW. I'm not sure why. I have a 600MHz PIII machine and I can only imagine what it's like on a slower PC. I, too, wish the game would execute faster, but SPWAW is so much better than any other SP game that I put up with the slow execution without too much complaint. (Indeed, the only thing I really don't like is the elite designation for SS troops.) Compared to previous SP games and their awful rules loopholes and abuses, SPWAW is truly wonderful. It still has nit-picky bugs but none of them are game-breakers as was the case with the other SP games.

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 8:34 am

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
This information just came from Michael Wood,

It's funny - at a time when usenet is full of hysterical screaming about the death of hardcore wargaming and hardcore sim gaming, we see a list of FREE improvements to a FREE game of the quality of SPWaW and a demo like steel beasts.

If this is the death of hardcore wargaming, let it get more dead daily.

BTW, what is the download figure for SPWaW up to now? (obviously you can't account for the amount downloaded and then copied for friends).

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sat Jun 10, 2000 9:23 am

Oops, I was talking about the scoreboard at the end of a battle.

Anyway, I checked it, and a tank kill gave me 50 points, while destroying a crew that left a non-destroyed tank (immobilized or pressing "9") gave me only one point per man. So if you don't completely destroy a tank, you won't get the points.

This makes its possible for the unsportsman player to abuse the "9" key, which is one reason I'd like empty tanks to be targetable and destroyable.