Hi Mad Russian,
ORIGINAL: Mad RussianI have just played the tutorial so I'm by no means an expert on PC.
This was from the Winterstorm demo? If so, FYI there are certainly some significant differences between that and Kharkov. You should not judge Kharkov based on the old Winterstorm demo, aside from getting a basic idea.
Way more information about the forces you control in CM. From where they are going, to what they are doing, to what is happening to them.
I actually find somewhat the opposite, so I think that this is likely a learning curve issue.
1) One of my tanks was hit and not repairable. I found that information in the end of game listing. Not during game play. I was unaware that 2 of my tanks had been hit. I destroyed all the Russian tanks. When I would check one of my tanks it would show me the targeting line but not what was targeted. I had to go and actually check each tanks target to see what it was. Very time consuming.
Actually, when you have a tank selected, the icons in the lower left tell you what kind of damage it has suffered, if any. You won't know if that damage is "recoverable" or not until the end of the scenario. That's realistically designed to be the repair crews looking it over and deciding whether it can be repaired or has to be sent to the rear or used as spare parts. The "recoverable" issue is important on the campaign side, but irrelevant for single scenarios.
When any of your tanks is hit, you get a message in the event log during replay, which is shown on the right side of the screen. Also, whenever one of your tanks is under fire, it's icon lights up in the icon display. Note also that the event log is clickable - click on a message and it takes you to the event, just like double-clicking on an icon moves you to that unit (see an icon light up, double click it to see who's getting fired at) and you can click on the mini-map to move around too.
I didn't think this was different in Winterstorm, but in Kharkov at least I can certainly say that you are told who you are targeting as well as shown the targeting line when you select a tank. You are also shown who is targeting you.
2) The plethoria of setting for CM isn't here. Where you can show the covered arcs, the movement orders for every single unit on the map, the detailed hit information...all seemingly missing from PC.
Covered arcs are not in Winterstorm or Kharkov. Kharkov does have a conditional Hold Fire order that allows more control over unit fire than in Winterstorm. Hit information becomes more detailed when you turn the verbose messages on (may be off by default in options). However, due to fog of war you will never get detailed hit info on enemy units. Winterstorm did not have the option of showing movement/targeting lines for every unit on the map. Kharkov does, you can toggle between showing the lines for the unit, platoon or side.
3) No elements information. The weather just seems to be what it is. The tutorial didn't have any mission information as well.
The tutorial is a tutorial, just a fictional setup for teaching and all the info is in the tutorial guide (I hope you read that?). The missions all have briefings before you play the mission. The campaign missions include briefings as well as maps.
4) Map information. Where exactly is the flag? I don't see it on the main map just what I think it is on the small map. Not a good trade off at all.
Er... the flag is the objective marker. It's on both the main map in 3D as a flag and on the mini-map. If you click on it in 3D you will get the victory point value. This is explained in both the tutorial guide as well as the manual.
Since it shows up on the map for me, I wonder if you could post a screenshot of your display? Perhaps there's a graphics/driver issue at work?
5) I have no idea what part of the turn I'm in. The phases are confusing and there is no clock to tell where I'm at. That would go away as you play the game I'm sure. As a CM player it was like being lost in the fog.
I think this is just a matter of what you're used to. You need to climb a new learning curve with Panzer Command as with any other game. It's not just like CM, even though it looks somewhat like it. Again, the manual and tutorial guide explain the turn structure, but it's actually pretty simple.
Each turn is 80 seconds. Each turn has two phases - first Orders and then Reactions. Each phase is half the turn, or 40 seconds. The Orders phase lets you decide what the Base Orders will be for each platoon for the full turn. The Reaction phase then lets you react within the limits of your Base Orders. During each phase, the bar at the top of the bottom interface either tells you "Orders Phase" or "Reaction Phase" and a progress bar shows you how far you are within each phase during replay (and allows you to pause, rewind or change speed).
PC has the ability to do more tactical moves with less effort While I could do overwatch in CM I had to set it up. In PC it's right there for you in the bound movement order.
Yep, Bound is a very handy order.
CM had terrain affected by combat. Buildings would in fact blow up creating a dust cloud. Fire of any kind, including vehicles, would set the map on fire as well. From buildings to trees and crops could all burn and catch fire from events in the game.
True, the environment in Panzer Command is not yet that dynamic.
Seems so far like all the vehicles that die in PC blow up. In CM you had the death clock. A vehicle wouldn't show being dead for a time. The side firing at the dead vehicle wouldn't necessarily know when that was.
Vehicles can also be abandoned, which does not result in a blow up, but there's definitely no death clock. You do pretty much know when you've taken out an enemy unit.
PC vehicles burn for just a bit. Then the smoke and fire subsides. That doesn't happen in CM.
Yep.
The tank fights seem a bit scripted in PC. At no point did the Russian tanks try to disengage. They just sat there and were killed one after the other. While CM takes some heat for tanks reversing out of combat that is actually a historically documented behavior. For some reason men want to keep on living.
That's quite true - except for the scripting part - nothing is scripted in Panzer Command, the AI evaluates everything dynamically. In Panzer Command individual vehicles or entire platoons can fail morale and withdraw. In your case, they apparently passed all their morale checks and chose to keep fighting. If they were already in a good engagement range, they would want to stay put to maximize accuracy and ROF.
There doesn't seem to be anywhere to tell what ammo loads my tanks have. Or how much they have left. That too is a bit unsettling.
Actually, there is - when you target them, only ammo types they have remaining will be available. If you don't choose a specific ammo type, the crew will use the best one they have left. You will also get a message when a tank runs out of a particular ammo type. You don't count shells though. At the level you are commanding, the important info for you is whether a tank still has AP or not or whether it has HE or not, etc.
Artillery is handled completely different by the two games. Both approaches have their merits and drawbacks IMO. A single over simplified delay for an entire nations forces in PC to an extensive over complicated system for each weapons type in CM. Where in CM anyone can spot to PC having only leaders with contact to the FO being able to spot....widely different approaches to the same end.
True, each has their proponents, I think they each have pros and cons but at this point I tend to prefer the PC system.
These are just some very basic observations and the first attempt to kick the tires of PC. I understand that Kharkov may well take into account many of these differences. Some of which aren't bad.
Thanks, I appreciate it. My main concern is whether you did find and read the tutorial guide as you played through the tutorial and whether you've had a chance to read the manual yet?
My mouse seemed over sensitive and I had a hard time moving around on the map but there are surely controls that can help that.
Absolutely. For one, you can adjust the camera scroll/rotate speeds in the game options. I can essentially play the entire game with just the mouse with the settings I have, using the middle mouse button to pan and zoom and the others to select, move and pop-up the menu.
For me as a scenario designer the BIG issue is not being able to make maps. CM is light years ahead with a fully operational map editor. That of course isn't evident in the tutorial..and may also be corrected in the upcoming Kharkov game.
Sure - though I encourage you to give it a try nevertheless. Think of what could be done with the set SL/ASL maps and you'll have the right frame of mind. With that said, it's not our intention to remain with fixed maps (and technically, anyone with 3D software and Photoshop could create new maps for the game right now as it is open to that). A map editor and map generator is very high on our future release features list. I would go so far as to say that it's near the top of the feature list for the next release.
Overall the first impression was very favorable.
Good Hunting.
Thanks! I hope my replies help you enjoy Panzer Command even more and I hope we get to hear your feedback on the Kharkov release as well.
Regards,
- Erik
