Desperatly missed weapon for WS

Peter Yearsley · Post by **Peter Yearsley** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:07 pm

I was thinking about a smart missile, too, except I had mentally labelled it as a heat-seeker. It could be sent off in a particular direction then wanders, giving indirect fire without need to link scanners. Friendly titans would be assumed to be putting out a protective signal. ECM, flares and forest firest would be effective against it. It would have a pre-determined maximum range (ie number of hexes that it passes over) before expiring without exploding.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:44 pm

I'm with PC there. A limited self-destruct would be useful without being so abusive.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:49 pm

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
If use is limited for self created jocks which must be at least of a cerain level/skill I don't think it will be missused. But it can give a certain thrill to an already desperate situation.

But will it seriously damage the CC aspects of the game? Just a thought.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:59 pm

Originally posted by Marga:
Concerning new weapons for ToS-WS, here are some design-suggestions I had in mind long ago:

1)
SNIPER CANNON (weapon type: cannon)
Special effect: +20% bonus on to hit for called shots
------------
Weight 5.5
Range {1,13}
Ammo 20
Heat 10.0
Number of projectiles: 1
Damage 5
Weapon slots 2
Ammo slots 1
Recycle 18
To hit bonus 0%
Cost 4500$

SNIPER GUN (weapon type: energy)
Special effect: +30% bonus on to hit for called shots
---------
Weight 4.5
Range {1,11}
Ammo 0
Heat 18.0
Number of projectiles: 1
Damage 3
Weapon slots 3
Ammo slots 0
Recycle 10
To hit bonus 0%
Cost 6000$
---------

PETRA GUN
---------
Special effect: double muzzle cannnon with haevy bore does 2 shots of 15 points damage (counted as one shot with 30 points damage).
Drawback: The heavy recoil of this weapon forces the JOCK to make a piloting skill roll after firing the PETRA GUN.
---------
Weight 11.5
Range {0,7}
Ammo 9
Heat 30.0
Number of projectiles: 1
Damage 30
Weapon slots 5
Ammo slots 1
Recycle 28
To hit bonus 0%
Cost 16000$
---------

SMART MISSILE
-------------
Like the SRMs, but they are seaking for the radiation of the engine, thus only hitting the location the engine is build in...
Drawback: The smart missile is distracted by Flares the same way as GMs are, this will let the Jocks <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> "love" <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> their flares if an enemy has SMART MISSILES

These are some great ideas. Oh its you Marga. I should have known. Well they are good. I like them. Of these I vote for the Petra.

Bernd Hesberg · Post by **Bernd Hesberg** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:24 pm

I don't like the self-destruct option, but with all the conditions to be met beforehand maybe I can live with it. During the previous discussion of this topic in the old forum there have never been such restrictions, which IMO are absolutely necessary.
I think the limitation based on DCS and survival skills would fit very well. And I like it, that no random jock should be allowed to use this tactic.
Larkin, that means you needn't code new decision branches for the AI. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

And then, I agree with Iceman, who wrote

Guided missiles ... should *all* hit on a successful roll as they're guided, ECM would reduce to hit and flares would reduce number of missiles that hit. That way ECM and flares wouldn't overlap in effect.

To keep GM's like that a bit more balanced, we might think about increasing the recycle time.
Just my 2c.

Jath · Post by **Jath** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:54 pm

How about a weapon that does no damage (or minimal damage) but slows down the enemy titan? Call it tanglefoot or something. Make it a large weapon in slots and weight, and let it have a greater effect on smaller titans. This would be a good anti-wolfpack weapon for assault titans, but would have little effect on other assault titans.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 10:11 pm

I was thinking about an energy weapon that would push it's target back a hex. It wouldn't do any damage, except to maybe make them perform a piloting skill check. Of course, you could use it to push your opponent into lava or acid, which could certainly be nasty. It would also be useful in keeping CC titans off of you. Just a thought.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 11:26 pm

Originally posted by THE Iceman:
Guided missiles, Larkin already knows my opinion on them, they should *all* hit on a successful roll as they're guided, ECM would reduce to hit and flares would reduce number of missiles that hit. That way ECM and flares wouldn't overlap in effect.

Thats the way it will work in WS. Need to balance it. First coding, then testing. Any ideas on numbers ?

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 11:35 pm

Originally posted by tarendelcymir:
I was thinking about an energy weapon that would push it's target back a hex

Its a fun idea but the weapon should also fit into the laws of physics (not completly but at least try to fit). Thats an example (same goes with the nuke missile) which will leave me with a bad feeling if I add them.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 11:39 pm

Originally posted by Jath:
How about a weapon that does no damage (or minimal damage) but slows down the enemy titan? Call it tanglefoot or something. Make it a large weapon in slots and weight, and let it have a greater effect on smaller titans. This would be a good anti-wolfpack weapon for assault titans, but would have little effect on other assault titans.

I could think of something effecting the actuator system. Sounds interesting as it its a new type of damage. We had the same idea some month back. We do not need another x points armor damage at y range. Special effects are fine for me.

Peter Yearsley · Post by **Peter Yearsley** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 11:41 pm

Continuing on the idea of heat-seekers, the allies protective transmissions could be linked to computer function, so there's a chance that you might be hit by friendly fire in the area if you've taken computer damage.

Incidentally, I'm strongly opposed to destruct switches. These are meant to be human beings running the titans; who would voluntarily commit suicide for the sake of team profits or TV ratings?

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 1:34 am

Originally posted by Peter Y:
Incidentally, I'm strongly opposed to destruct switches. These are meant to be human beings running the titans; who would voluntarily commit suicide for the sake of team profits or TV ratings?

There is NO instant jock death on self destruction ! Who told you so ?

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 2:02 am

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:

Its a fun idea but the weapon should also fit into the laws of physics (not completly but at least try to fit). Thats an example (same goes with the nuke missile) which will leave me with a bad feeling if I add them.

You mean you can fit the Cold Light Gun or the Black Ray Gun into the laws of physics, but not a Repulsor Beam?

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: tarendelcymir ]</p>

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 2:15 am

Originally posted by tarendelcymir:

You mean you can fit the Cold Light Gun or the Black Ray Gun into the laws of physics, but not a Repulsor Beam?

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: tarendelcymir ]

Don't twist my words. Yes, I can hardly think of a beam moving 200t for 333m. Harder than thinking of the other two you mentioned. Bit this is nitpicking. All three are not within the limits we know today. I tried to say that it should fit into my imagination. The repulsor does not.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 2:36 am

Originally posted by Peter Y:
Continuing on the idea of heat-seekers, the allies protective transmissions could be linked to computer function, so there's a chance that you might be hit by friendly fire in the area if you've taken computer damage.

Incidentally, I'm strongly opposed to destruct switches. These are meant to be human beings running the titans; who would voluntarily commit suicide for the sake of team profits or TV ratings?

I guess you haven't read the background info for Titans of Steel: Warring Suns. Most of the humans undergo 'modifications' before piloting the titans. Usually these are not very invasive. Others result in cyborg or Android creation. There is other background which will be contained in the campaigns.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 2:40 am

Originally posted by tarendelcymir:

You mean you can fit the Cold Light Gun or the Black Ray Gun into the laws of physics, but not a Repulsor Beam?

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: tarendelcymir ]

Sure. These are devices that at least one member of Vicious Byte has seen information about.

Hetz(er) · Post by **Hetz(er)** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 2:44 am

Since I was the one to start this latest round of nonsense it seems that I need to clairify some things about what a self destruct option meant to me.

1st, thank-you Larkin for knowing what I was driving at even when my idea was so vaguely phrased.

In mechwarrior the self-destruct option was tied to a trait called "survival" which also governed your eject rolls. The idea was that you would eject and then have your mech explode AFTER you ejected. Survival was still not a given because if you ejected into a woods and the explosion set the woods on fire your successfully ejected pilot could still die in the forest fire. I don't remember if mechwarrior had a "hotseat" option but I only played with experience built teams. Self Destructing was not something that you did so you could watch the pretty explosion but a last ditch try to salvage an hopeless game. The threat of it however made you have to consider it as a tactical option. In other words you tended not to clump a lot of expensive assault mechs too close together. In other discussions, CC weapons have been evaluated as better used in smaller faster titans so I'm not sure that I buy "SD" as hugely changing assault tactics. A "SD" option is not going to affect duels. Only in team play with experience built pilots that you REALLY do not want to lose are you going to have this choice. So "just how lucky do you feel, punque?".

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 4:32 am

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:

Thats the way it will work in WS. Need to balance it. First coding, then testing. Any ideas on numbers ?

Keep them exactly as they are and test it. You wanted flares to be needed, you'll get it. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Flares reduce the number of missiles by 25~50%, sounds good to me. More than that would probably hamper GMs too much. ECMs seem ok too, IMO they should only help a little and not be a main factor - that's for flares. No need to increase reload time either, IMO. Only testing will tell.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 4:37 am

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:

I could think of something effecting the actuator system. Sounds interesting as it its a new type of damage. We had the same idea some month back. We do not need another x points armor damage at y range. Special effects are fine for me.

But in ToS the actuators have nothing to do with the movement rate <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> It'll only affect skill checks. Maybe if it'd stop the titan in its current hex, then it'd have to start its move all over again. But that wouldn't work too well against recons as the reload time had to be shorter than a recon at full run... how about the E.M.Pulser that shuts down the engine? <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> It'll make any titan stop. And more. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 4:40 am

I guess I'll be accused of nerfing GMs yet again <img src="smile.gif" border="0">