1.04 Xmas update...updates?

[dunnsa]

1755 British do get Naval replacements every year, French don't.

AFAIK, that's WAD, reflecting generally the relative weakness and lack of committment by French.
SYW was raging in Europe, NA was a side show [as RoP will show us [;)]]

Replacements are only needed for missing elements.
Weakened [hits, not sunk] Naval units should gain strength if left in port with no need for replacements.
Often takes a few turns.
If you have a saved game that shows otherwise, please submit to AGEOD help email address.

[GShock]

Certainly i will not mind next time you post about a supposed bug
I will not lose my time and effort as a WIA betatester trying to confirm and reproduce a bug reported by a guy who will not even consider us "good enough" to grace us with his "precious" false reports.
A lesson learned!

I learned that lesson last July, Arsan, that's why i didn't edit that post back then. [;)]



I have been asked by Hok months and months ago, to submit bug reports directly to him. I did and won't stop doing it exclusively for people like Pocus, Hok, Primaspirit and Markshot.

It's out of yours and of the other volounteers' jurisdiction to change my understanding of the words "esteem" and "friendship" as well as it is beyond your power to change my decision on whether to keep helping AgeOD in the ways and forms *i* choose or not.

The reasons of this choice, as well as of that choice back in July, are what you volounteers fail to understand; That is because you were the cause of both decisions.

[Stwa]

Very fascinating thread. So a few questions if someone has the time.
 
1. If you purchased the game, and are not a beta tester, then my guess is your a customer? Right, or am I missing something here.
 
2. Is it ok for customers to report or inquire bugs at any forum site setup for that purpose.
 
3. Is it ok for customers to communicate directly with Ageod staff members without channeling it throught the Testing coordinators first?
 
I think the difference is this. I am a customer, (not a beta), and I guess I can report and inquire about bugs or features through any channel that responds, (After all you would think customers live a free world).  If I don't have time to fill out a bug report or upload saved games, or do additional de-bugging or research for Ageod, then Ageod is still happy becuase a bug was reported, right? I can still inquire about the status of a bug later, right? For me, as a customer, I don't want to be part of the de-bugging process. I don't mind reporting something now and then, but I don't want to upload stuff, or print out stuff, I just want to drop a message in the forum saying I suspect there is a bug, and that's all I want to do. This isn't a big problem is it? After all, its not up to me to resolve the bugs, right? 

[Arsan]

ORIGINAL: Stwa

Very fascinating thread. So a few questions if someone has the time.

1. If you purchased the game, and are not a beta tester, then my guess is your a customer? Right, or am I missing something here.

2. Is it ok for customers to report or inquire bugs at any forum site setup for that purpose.

3. Is it ok for customers to communicate directly with Ageod staff members without channeling it throught the Testing coordinators first?

I think the difference is this. I am a customer, (not a beta), and I guess I can report and inquire about bugs or features through any channel that responds, (After all you would think customers live a free world).  If I don't have time to fill out a bug report or upload saved games, or do additional de-bugging or research for Ageod, then Ageod is still happy becuase a bug was reported, right? I can still inquire about the status of a bug later, right? For me, as a customer, I don't want to be part of the de-bugging process. I don't mind reporting something now and then, but I don't want to upload stuff, or print out stuff, I just want to drop a message in the forum saying I suspect there is a bug, and that's all I want to do. This isn't a big problem is it? After all, its not up to me to resolve the bugs, right? 

Stwa
As you say, you are free to report bugs the way you like and where you like... but certainly there are ways to report bugs that greatly help the developers to find and eventually fix the bug (which i suppose is what you intend when you report it).
An others definitely don't
As you may suppose, dropping a message saying "Hey i found bug, my units act weird![:-][:@][:-][:@]" will not help much to confirm and eventually resolve an issue [;)]
And given the limited time available for developers and team members, is very possible it will not be looked at unless they get some confirmation with actual facts and saves so they can reproduce the bug.
But, hey, i'm just a lowly beta and this is just my personal opinion... don't take it as anything more [:)]

Gshock
I think you should better regard yourself and your attitudes as the cause of your betatester status removal.
But surely its easier and more comforting to you to victimize yourself and blame others around... [8|]
In any case, it don't matter now.
You are free to report bugs as you see fit (even if it's not the most helpful and efficient) and i'm free to try to confirm and try to help on resolving the bugs i see fit... don't you think?

Regards

[Stwa]

Hi Arsan,

I know you mean well, and remember a lot people in the forums work "in the business" sort of speak. Some of them for a long time.

Thematic in your messages, you are placeing the burden of rapid de-bugging in part on the customer. See how you scold the customer for not supplying "enough" information. Perhaps scolding, becuase the customer, being every bit as busy as the developers, does not want to drop what he is doing and assist in the debugging process. Remember, its in Ageods, best interest to rapidly identify and fix bugs. It is also Ageods responsibility to do so, not the customers responsibility. WWI game is proof of this. Ageod fixes stuff even the customers aren't aware of.

And also, whether I report bugs or not, its Ageod's responsibility to find em and kill em. I don't want to look for em. You look for em.
Most companies like it when customers thoughtfully report anomolies or weirdness in the game, bugs or otherwise. If the company does not want to act on the bug report of any one customer, that's fine. But it still does not relinquish the company's responsibility for finding and killing bugs. The customers are just not responsible, and I don't care if you find and fix the bugs quickly, but you should.

[Arsan]

Yes, sure, that perfect world you speak of is cool and... perfect... but it does not exist as you know well. [;)]
It's nots like AGEOD or any other war game company around can have 2.000 paid workers hunting for bugs around. Hell, nor giants like Microsoft can afford it.
Both players and developers are interested on bug solving. And that's why there are reports.
The more detailed and useful, the better for everybody involved.
You can do it as you like, but some ways are more helpful and efficient for the intended result: that the bug gets fixed.
That's all!

AGEOD supports his games and fix reported bugs and the problems they can find to the better of his ability.
We both know lots of companies that don't or maybe do fix bugs on expansion-patches you have to pay for.
Just take a look at AACW. Its has been out for nearly two years and its still receiving patches full of free improvements (not only bug fixes) like the WIA introduced Replay function that has been recently retrofitted to AACW .
All the free goodies AACW has received since launch on patches are more than enough to be sold as an expansion or two!
Regards

[dunnsa]

Good points Stwa,

We're all volunteers here [coordinators, betas] doing what we do for the good of the game [so PlayStation doesn't destroy the genre [:@]]

My opinion:
Remember, the team at AGEOD feeds their families with the proceeds of the sales....

So, AGEOD could either

• a) Leave games as-is after a few 'serious bug-fix' patches, move to next game to generate food on tables
• b) Charge customers for patches to generate food on tables
• c) Rely on volunteers for the bulk of the work chasing bugs and helping assemble free patches, thus taking the best of the ideas and incorporating them into the game as appropriate [always approved by AGEOD team]. Then AGEOD team can build new games to generate food on tables.

a and b could be done with few if any volunteers, leaving all of us to whine and mod [;)]
c is what AGEOD chooses to do, and we get continuously improving games.

I enjoy what I do, and try very hard to not alienate anyone in the consumer world.
...but I do have limits of tolerance [8|]

So, let's chant together 'I like "c", I like "c"....'[&o]

[GShock]

When i report to Hok i don't have to undergo weeks of discussions where all those supposed to find bugs actually deny their existence, blame false reports, disagree on a fix which is needed, minimize the importance of the issue, slander the author of the report and, in private, insult him and threaten him.

Sometimes i wonder...if a beta is kicked for an inappropriate post in private forums what would a fair punishment be for a coordinator who acts like aforementioned both in public and in private against a former volounteer member but i conclude that everything turned out to be for the better as things are now are definitely better for the game, for the Dev house and for the community.

Sorry to see they aren't for the volounteers but well, nothing is ever perfect you know? [8D]

[JastaV]

I can confirm GShock’s reported bug!

I just notified it at AGEod site too:
http://www.ageod.com/forums/showpost.ph ... ostcount=1

I tried “Few acres of Snow scenario”: British side.
Down here some details.

First game turn.
Moved Braddock’s army in Philadelphia

Second game turn.
Embarked Braddock’s army on Chesapeake transport fleet and moved all to New York.
Supply#B1 wagon too.

Third game turn.
Chesapeake transport fleet was at destination: Braddock’s army with its Supply#B1 wagon was in New York too.
Notice, Chesapeake transport fleet movement took place along coastal sea areas.
Same turn bought by Option a British supply units.

Fourth game turn
New Supply wagon was in Halifax. I successfully uploaded Supply units over a British fleet.
Moved Fleet to Boston: it has to cross ocean areas on the way to destination.

Fifth game turn.
British fleet was in Boston, in port at planned destination.
Unfortunately Supply wagon was till in Halifax un-transported.

NOTICE: This way scenarios cannot be played. British side logistic support does not work.
You all know it was Lodilefty to evidence the importance of the logistic effort for WIA campaign gaming.
Even recentely he said: “With advanced activation, hardened attrition and the newest patch to WIA, beating the AI is not simple. Logistics failures will kill you....”
http://www.ageod.com/forums/showpost.ph ... ostcount=3

Please do not say me something was wrong in my quote, again[:D]

All played game turns collected here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/182499259/1 ... paign0.rar

Hope my investigations, reporting and game turn files sending could help.
Wishing you could fix it soon.

JastaV

[Primasprit]

Problem identified and fixed as written in post #16.
The transport of supply units work, the problem does only affect the described scenario and region. [:)]

Cheers
Norbert

[Blueprint]

Surreal. AGEOD is squashing bugs so fast most consumers haven't the time needed to notice them and we have this interesting piece of wishful thinking with:

- the ex betatester in exile on Matrix forum who looks after any way to harm the others volunteers. Gshock you're lacking on the AGEOD forum but whatever your qualities, both the motive of your removal and your desire to extract some revenge against other AGEOD helpers is really disappointing. From time to time, I've had some disappointing remarks but I never stopped work on SVF or leave AGEOD....and I don't see why this need to protracted conflict for nothing
- the ex beta tester who since some days has decided to harm AGEOD ( but fortunatly by accumulating so much ridiculous errors (Gamespot review being the most laughable) et who as usual has missed the boat on this one too ( but JastaV is so much fun by its ridiculous posts I could almost forgive him)
- the normal comments about game industry contemps of consumers applied to a company yet patching 2 years old games


My god.... I propose to declare Matrix forum officially AGEOD HATERS reserve. So we could looking at this munificent spectacle.

back to work....

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Blueprint
My god.... I propose to declare Matrix forum officially AGEOD HATERS reserve. So we could looking at this munificent spectacle.

I'm certainly disappointed to read this opinion. I think we should have a discussion by e-mail on this. Our moderation is fairly loose, perhaps you can point out to me what I've missed. Please send me an e-mail at erikr@matrixgames.com to discuss.

For everyone else, if you are going to bring up past history which we were not part of, I think it would be a lot more courteous to bring it up over at AGEOD's forum where they can respond more easily. Reporting issues or discussing them is fine, but it seems things have gone beyond that.

Regards,

- Erik

[Blueprint]

Don't worry. It is ironic: your forum is concentrating the very few Ageod haters, that's not to say it's only that, of course, the vast majority of posters here being normal game consumers and most of their posts are worth reading

[Blueprint]

ORIGINAL: JastaV



NOTICE: This way scenarios cannot be played. British side logistic support does not work.
You all know it was Lodilefty to evidence the importance of the logistic effort for WIA campaign gaming.
Even recentely he said: “With advanced activation, hardened attrition and the newest patch to WIA, beating the AI is not simple. Logistics failures will kill you....”
http://www.ageod.com/forums/showpost.ph ... ostcount=3

Please do not say me something was wrong in my quote, again[:D]


JastaV

Unfortunatly yes there's something wrong about this bug fixed 3 days ago: you're talking about Scenarios... with a s. All scenarios, when this bug whose fix was announced 3 days ago is affecting one region in one scenario.

[JastaV]

Thank Norbert![:)]

I'm just sorry You did not that few hours before: I waste the afternoon going after the bug and reporting![8|]

[MorningDew]

ORIGINAL: Stwa

Ok,

Thanks for clearing that up. From the way things were sounding I was getting the impression he had raped a farm animal or something like that.

[;)]

OK. That made me laugh out loud!

[GShock]

Is it possible to have an answer on why everytime i post about anything with the ageod games the Propaganda team (including fake namers) intervenes with such haste and hate against me?

Why me? The AgeOD boards are full of people who reports bugs and complaints. Why am I the only one who has second reasons? What's wrong with you, guys?

[Stwa]

ORIGINAL: Blueprint
Surreal. AGEOD is squashing bugs so fast most consumers haven't the time needed to notice them and we have this interesting piece of wishful thinking with:
<Snip>

True, Ageod does work hard after a game is released to get things working. I have seen this since BoA days, and WiA was no exception. I know all of these guys from over at Ageod, and I know they are doing something most every day to get things along. I wish I had that much time to do the same, but I don't.

But in the real world, I always used to marvel at programmers that pound their chests when they fix a bug, when they themselves were responsible for the bug in the first place.

Also, just as a general rule, on your first pass with any development project, there are tons of little errors, sometimes in the hundreds, that can be fixed very quickly. This is your clue that the project is still early in the development cylce. Its just sometimes with Ageod, this event occurs AFTER the projects release.

[Blueprint]

you want computer wargames companies to deliver the QA the great mainstream ones have ( or should have...). You won't. Currently, I doubt any wargame sellers to be larger than 5 persons, including gfx, marketing stuff. And betatesters are at most 12 guys doing some tests on their free time which is generally the rarer ressources.

I don't known of any wargames in the Matrix catalog to have not been heavily patched. Today wargames are more complex to code than 20 years ago ( fancy gfx has a price too) and made by companies certainly smaller in employees number.

So the choice isn't between good and poor wargames at start, but beween perfectible ones&nbsp; and the ...others. Waiting anything else is just mathematically impossible.Waiting more is just IMHO taking the risk to get no new computer wargames.

That's not to say anything should be bought or any misbehaving to be pardoned. But you have to differentiate between companies behaviours. AGEOD is standing fast on its reputation about consumer care. Do you know many companies delivering patches for 2 yeras old games, giving serial keys to unfortunates having lost their, retroffiting new features into old games, delivering a 200 pages manual ( a bit late but writing a 200 pages manual in the smallest company isn't exactly easy), offering a refund? In such a case, I say OK I buy and I can wait 2 to 3 months. What the heck about such a delay. I bought some games some years ago which never worked as designed and I'm sure anyone could say the same.

By the same way, I don't remember any productivity soft not sharing the same patching processus after release...Microsoft anyone.

[JastaV]

Do you know many companies ......., giving serial keys to unfortunates having lost their, retroffiting new features into old games, delivering a 200 pages manual ( a bit late but writing a 200 pages manual in the smallest company isn't exactly easy), offering a refund?

+1[:)]

Do you know many companies delivering patches for 2 yeras old games......

That's because AGEod is used to publish beta-development state games![:(]
I bought BOA, AACW, NCP, WIA, WW1: none of them was stable at time I firstly played it. And I always bought the boxed version usually published some time later the pay for download one.
I apreciate AACW: a good game! NOW!
Unfortunately NCP, I'd love because of subject and age, is till far from a good level.... see problems reported at forum pages. Unfortunately AGEod team is denmostrating few enthusiasm for fixing NCP troubles, may be for reason of times and few human resources.
NCP was published some more a year ago: I bough it out of my money..... how many time till I'll have to wait before it'll reach, if any, a good gaming level?

JastaV