Round two - DING YH v TS

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I just threw this together quick to show an example of a "patrol". You can see that you set up to 3 waypoints, and your TF will patrol between these 3. Also you can see that your loiter time at each hex is independently settable. The green hexes in the path at bottom in this case are the patrol hexes (and no, this isnt really where I am going to have this TF patrol, I just tossed it together to show you).

Patrol zones will make sub contorl so, so much less time consuming. With vanilla WitP ordering around the Allies subs in 1945 is . . . time consuming [:D]

Questions:
1. What happens when fuel is low? Does the TF automatically return to base, refuel and resume its patrol? If so, does the TF figure the return trip fuel into the equation?
2. What happens if the TF is damaged? Is there a point of damage where the TF will return to base to repair? If so, is this a setting that the player can control?

Thanks again for the AAR and the answers!

Chad

[Yamato hugger]

Low fuel will cause it to retrun home. As for resuming and damage, I have no idea.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
Questions:
1. What happens when fuel is low? Does the TF automatically return to base, refuel and resume its patrol?

Yes

If so, does the TF figure the return trip fuel into the equation?

Yes

2. What happens if the TF is damaged? Is there a point of damage where the TF will return to base to repair?

Yes - aborts patrol and returns to base for repairs.

If so, is this a setting that the player can control?

No.

[Grotius]

I have the same question about unloading transports over the beach during an invasion. In stock, I use huge numbers of transports to ensure that they load/unload in one day. A secondary benefit is that if any one ship goes down, it doesn't take a huge percentage of an LCU with it.

It sounds like this tactic may not make sense in AE, since all those transports will have to "wait in line" to load and unload?

[Mike Solli]

I look at it as landing waves.  Either they sit and wait their turn, or send in one convoy at a time.  Either way, the net result is the same - landing waves.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I have the same question about unloading transports over the beach during an invasion. In stock, I use huge numbers of transports to ensure that they load/unload in one day. A secondary benefit is that if any one ship goes down, it doesn't take a huge percentage of an LCU with it.

It sounds like this tactic may not make sense in AE, since all those transports will have to "wait in line" to load and unload?

Landing over a beach is different from unloading at a base. For amphibious operations, the type of ship is important. A merchant freighter that can unload easily at a pier is a real bear to unload off a beach head.

There are three general types of transport/cargo ships:
Amphibious ships - APA/AKA, landing ships, etc that are specifically equipped to land troops on beaches. These are the good ones, treasure them!
Naval transports and cargo ships. Better equiped with boats and crews. Not so good as amphibs, but much better than...
Merchants - just the wrong ships but sometimes all you got. They are slow and dangerous to use in amphib ops.

Amphibs, by the way, as also good for unloading at small ports. They get use their amphib potential to load away from the little piers that are congested with non-amphibs.

Did I mention that you should treasure your amphibs??

Anyway, the basic rule is this:
Port unload is limited by capacity of the port, with some assist at small ports from the capabilities of the ship(s)
Amphib unload is limited by the capabilites of the ship(s)

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Anyway, the basic rule is this:
Port unload is limited by capacity of the port, with some assist at small ports from the capabilities of the ship(s)
Amphib unload is limited by the capabilites of the ship(s)

Thanks for both replies Don!

Being able to setup sub patrols, and have them stick (outside of excessive damage) will be a huge benefit! Thanks to the team for getting this in!

It will also be very nice to see the new unloading rules in action.

Thanks again for the replies.

[W T Door]

Does the AI still hijack subs in the yards for repair? I seem to have this problem pretty frequently, sending a boat in for repair or upgrade and then discovering it at sea when it gets down to about 10 or less for damage.

[Yamato hugger]

I cant answer that - I leave nothing under computer control.

[W T Door]

Thanks for the reply. In the instances where this has happened I had everything set to human control, which is part of what made it so bewildering. Dunno if it was a bug or what.

[Yamato hugger]

My guess would be you had auto-subs set to yes. Thats the default on it (dont ask me why).

[Yamato hugger]

Well, the turn is finally over (about 14 hours worth) and its back in the hands of the allies. According to a thread in the devs forum (on number of torpedoes used at Pearl in the real attack (40) vs the games first strike (63) I got 4 BBs at Pearl and the rest need new paint). Kind of makes up for not hitting Force Z.

Have some surprises in store for him this time. Last game I didnt really spend a lot of time on trying to form up my "standard" WitP task groups, and I really spent no time at all looking at my planes and garrison troops in China. This time I did both those things.

So rather than coming into Borneo and Mindanao with a 2 ship TF covering force I will be heading in with 3 BB divisions. Paras were hosed in the other version, couldnt drop until we upgraded to a later version, this time I can drop from the outset. And I will.

KB has divided into 6 TFs (3 carrier groups of 2 each and 3 bait groups) and they are moving west. 1 of my minis survived the day, so I am sending it back into Pearl also. Not sure if it will strike today or tomorrow. Probably wont do anything, but never know. There are a lot of cripples in there that are teetering [;)]

[Grotius]

YH, is KB all in the same hex? 5 TFs following a 6th?

There are three general types of transport/cargo ships:

Don, this sounds like a big improvement over stock. Thanks for the info.

[witpqs]

What exactly do the 'bait' KB TF's look like?

[Yamato hugger]

Well, right now they havent moved yet, so its a big red ball. The carriers will spread out 1 hex abreast and move west. A DD force will move west in front of them. Another heads north west towards Japan, and the 3rd SW to Kwajalein. One of them should make contact with at least 1 of his carriers. Or so the plan goes.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Do you have part of combat report showing minisubs operations?

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Do you have part of combat report showing minisubs operations?

Well theres this from the combat events log:
COMBAT EVENTS FOR 12/07/41

I-16 launches midget submarine Ha-22 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-22 hits a mine and is destroyed at Pearl Harbor
I-18 launches midget submarine Ha-24 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-24 penetrates harbor at Pearl Harbor!!!
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
I am guessing this line went to the log after the attack
I-20 launches midget submarine Ha-14 to attack Pearl Harbor
Midget Submarine Ha-14 becomes lost and returns to I-20
I-22 launches midget submarine Ha-18 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-18 founders and is lost attempting to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor
I-24 launches midget submarine Ha-19 to attack Pearl Harbor
SSX Ha-19 unable to penetrate harbor at Pearl Harbor and is abandoned

And this from the combatreport:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 07, 41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24

Allied Ships
DM Sicard
BB Nevada, Torpedo hits 1
AM Bobolink





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24, hits 2

Allied Ships
DM Sicard
BB Arizona
AM Bobolink





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24, hits 6, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PC Taney

[Chad Harrison]

Thats just plain cool! Thanks for posting that.

[pad152]

The Combat Event Log, is most unclear, lost seems to have different meanings, (lost - has in lost it's way, and/or missing and/or lost -  as in sunk!).

How did SSX Ha-24 attack if it was lost or sunk?

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is lost
Which is it? , lost it's way or missing and/or sunk?

How about
SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is Sunk!

and/or

SSX Ha-24 settles to bottom of harbor at Pearl Harbor and is Missing!

 

[jjax]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-24, hits 6, heavy damage

Talking about the log, I'm assuming that the sub didnt hit 6 ships. So "hits 6" should be "6 hits" or "hits: 6". That should make things a little clearer.

If it does mean that the sub made 6 hits then i [&o].