Advanced Third Reich/ World at War

[yesman68]

Actually, Mad Russian, I have the computer version of 3R published in '96 by Avalon Hill and still enjoy playing it (in the absence of people to play A3R, the boardgame).

Am I to understand there is no armor exploitation in WiF?

I've never opted to buy WiF because I don't have room to set the thing up. There is such a thing as being to big.

Having said that, I will be purchasing CWiF. I'm a sucker for grand strategic scale games!!

Dan

[willycube]

I asked a simple question a few replys back about is there another computer version of 3rd Reich other than the horrible inept game that Talon soft put out? Pease advise somebody.

Willy

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: willycube

I asked a simple question a few replys back about is there another computer version of 3rd Reich other than the horrible inept game that Talon soft put out? Pease advise somebody.

Willy

Avalon Hill came out with a computer version of 3R in the 90's (3RPC). Alas funding and/or resources for bug fixes was ended...way...to soon. I was one of the beta testers and was sad that a game I truely love died. Avalon Hill was sold a couple of years later. Since work had stopped on 3RPC it really didn't matter. That is life.

[HansHafen]

Simple answer; Talonsoft never made a 3rd Reich computer game based on a boardgame. They published Against the Reich, but it was not based on a boardgame. It was an expansion of the EastFront series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TalonSoft. http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025655.html

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
I thought I saw that this project was cancelled 2 or 3 years ago. I could be wrong.

Given how the two products, MWiF and MaWaW, might step on eachother's toes a bit, that wouldn't surprise me.

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
Avalon Hill was sold a couple of years later.

Interesting line of acquisition: AH > TSR > WoC > Hasbro.
Does Hasbro, GMT or Bruce Harper now own the A3R franchise? I just visited the GMT site and it's still up; Harper and GMT own AWAW at least, but does that include A3R and ERS?

[willycube]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

Simple answer; Talonsoft never made a 3rd Reich computer game based on a boardgame. They published Against the Reich, but it was not based on a boardgame. It was an expansion of the EastFront series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TalonSoft. http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025655.html

What are you talking about I own the game and it was exactly like the board game which I still have why would you say something like that geez!

Willy

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: yesman68
Am I to understand there is no armor exploitation in WiF?

When the attacker has the advantage in armor, he or she can choose the blitzkrieg combat table, in which case armor, mechanized and to a lesser degree, motorized units, can breakthrough one hex past the target hex if you roll high enough. Over the course of a long turn, repeated breakthroughs can isolate a lot of units, so I would say WiF offers plenty of armor exploitation.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: coregames

ORIGINAL: yesman68
Am I to understand there is no armor exploitation in WiF?

When the attacker has the advantage in armor, he or she can choose the blitzkrieg combat table, in which case armor, mechanized and to a lesser degree, motorized units, can breakthrough one hex past the target hex if you roll high enough. Over the course of a long turn, repeated breakthroughs can isolate a lot of units, so I would say WiF offers plenty of armor exploitation.

All of that is correct. However, the scale of WIF is 90 KM per hex so you shouldn't think of armor exploitation as being at a 'tactical' level.

[gravyhair]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

Simple answer; Talonsoft never made a 3rd Reich computer game based on a boardgame. They published Against the Reich, but it was not based on a boardgame. It was an expansion of the EastFront series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TalonSoft. http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025655.html

HansHafen is confusing TalonSoft's "Against The Reich" expansion to the Campaign Series with the PC Third Reich, which is a whole different game. The latter is a direct port of the 3R boardgame, right down to hexes and counters. That's the one we're talking about.

[Grotius]

Yes, Third Reich PC was published in 1996 by Avalon Hill. I guess I'm one of the few who liked it. I beta-tested it and played it even after the beta-test ended, which is unusual for me. Yes, the AI was weak, but I imposed house rules on myself to make the game more even -- something I do for every computer wargame. Another rap on the game is that it was *too* faithful to the boardgame, and didn't take advantage of the computer to streamline things. For me, that was a plus.

[MorningDew]

ORIGINAL: yesman68

Actually, Mad Russian, I have the computer version of 3R published in '96 by Avalon Hill and still enjoy playing it (in the absence of people to play A3R, the boardgame).

You can play AWAW against others online using Warplanner

[HansHafen]

Well sorry Willy, you little ingrateful twit. I'll let you whine next time. I think I just figured out why no one answered your...

[willycube]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

Well sorry Willy, you little ingrateful twit. I'll let you whine next time. I think I just figured out why no one answered your...

Little ingrateful twit hah, I am 6ft 1 inch I will have you know, twit sounds like one of those English words we all love, I am offended by that name you could have called me Cube or boob or something nicer but twit ouch, I still dont have an answer to my question but in a reply earlier I think someone said you were confused about the 3rd Reich computer game, admit your wrong and I will forgive you.

Willy [cube]

[Mike Parker]

ORIGINAL: yesman68

Actually, Mad Russian, I have the computer version of 3R published in '96 by Avalon Hill and still enjoy playing it (in the absence of people to play A3R, the boardgame).

Am I to understand there is no armor exploitation in WiF?

I've never opted to buy WiF because I don't have room to set the thing up. There is such a thing as being to big.

Having said that, I will be purchasing CWiF. I'm a sucker for grand strategic scale games!!

Dan

I have been at various times an avid player of both 3R A3R and WIF. Its hard to directly answer your question but I will try.

WiF doesn't have the same type of Armour exploitation as ?3R. it does however have very much the same dynamic. Because having a preponderance of Armoured (or Armoured Inf) can allow you to use a more beneficial column on the attack table you get VERY MUCH the feel of armoured exploitation (or a term I prefer 'battle of manouver'). It doesn't have quite the violent upheaval that /3R has, its more gradual than that, but in some ways that is very pleasing. Your exploitation is instead a more encroaching doom where the opponent is praying to all the hold dear that the turn ends, and the attacker is grinning like the cheshire cat as his armour/armoured inf move into position to cut off swaths of troops.

Like you know me enough to believe what I say... but I will say it ainyway for what its worth, if your worried you will lose the thrill of armoured encirclements from ?3R, well you won't believe me its in there!

[jcprom]

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

[Jagdtiger14]

I used to play A3R/Rising Sun in the mid-late 90's...even went to Avaloncon twice to play it there. If I remember correctly INF also had ZOC's(I never played 3R). I really like and prefer the impulse system in WiF as well. A3R was a game based on 3 month(quarterly) turns with initiative checks...sometime in 42 the initiative would swing to the Allies and give them a double move which was huge...sometimes each side would get double moves until the Allies finally maintained initiative control. The problem I have with WiF weather and intiative is that its only one die when you roll for it...I wish there was a bell curve with at least 2d10 with modifiers.

I have to disagree that having "too many" ARM in WiF is a waste of BP's. Germany and USSR always build out all their ARM. CW and USA need as much ARM as possible so their follow-up to invasion cant be blitzed off(or made more difficult). In our group the Japs always build out their ARM.

ORIGINAL: jcprom

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I used to play A3R/Rising Sun in the mid-late 90's...even went to Avaloncon twice to play it there. If I remember correctly INF also had ZOC's(I never played 3R). I really like and prefer the impulse system in WiF as well. A3R was a game based on 3 month(quarterly) turns with initiative checks...sometime in 42 the initiative would swing to the Allies and give them a double move which was huge...sometimes each side would get double moves until the Allies finally maintained initiative control. The problem I have with WiF weather and intiative is that its only one die when you roll for it...I wish there was a bell curve with at least 2d10 with modifiers.

I have to disagree that having "too many" ARM in WiF is a waste of BP's. Germany and USSR always build out all their ARM. CW and USA need as much ARM as possible so their follow-up to invasion cant be blitzed off(or made more difficult). In our group the Japs always build out their ARM.

ORIGINAL: jcprom

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

In WIF the amount of armor you can build is limited to the counter mix (hence your frequent reference to "build out"). Is that true in 3R?

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I used to play A3R/Rising Sun in the mid-late 90's...even went to Avaloncon twice to play it there. If I remember correctly INF also had ZOC's(I never played 3R). I really like and prefer the impulse system in WiF as well. A3R was a game based on 3 month(quarterly) turns with initiative checks...sometime in 42 the initiative would swing to the Allies and give them a double move which was huge...sometimes each side would get double moves until the Allies finally maintained initiative control. The problem I have with WiF weather and intiative is that its only one die when you roll for it...I wish there was a bell curve with at least 2d10 with modifiers.

I have to disagree that having "too many" ARM in WiF is a waste of BP's. Germany and USSR always build out all their ARM. CW and USA need as much ARM as possible so their follow-up to invasion cant be blitzed off(or made more difficult). In our group the Japs always build out their ARM.

ORIGINAL: jcprom

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

In WIF the amount of armor you can build is limited to the counter mix (hence your frequent reference to "build out"). Is that true in 3R?

Yes, it is. In 3R each country had a seperate force pool of units they could build. You could not build more of a type if ALL had already been built. It was a great game.

[composer99]

Just like airpower, there is no such thing as too much armour. You just have to know when to build it and when building the cheaper stuff is more important.

[sajbalk]

I will second Composer99's thoughts. With the 2D10, ARM/MECH is great. Need mot divs, and INF for the cities and mountains. MOT/ART/CAV is for after you have run out of the former.