The Fine Tuned mod V 1.7

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Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

ORIGINAL: james_austintx

Can you check the M24 rifle? I was unable to load any ammo into it.

Try the 7.62x51 in pack of 5 or 10, the 20 is only compatible with FN FALs and the 100 with M60s. In the next version, i will have the weapon descr and it will be stated.
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

I recently figured out how enemies are picked, as well as their inventory, to populate the gameworld. Seem i made a few mistaken assumtions when i edited the persons and their things. For example, each phase 2 templates characters are used, and each has about 3 loadouts they can be randomly assigned. But with the huge variety of weapons (even more in my mod, and my next version has several more) and skills, only a few get used that way. So i plan on reworking the whole thing so the enemy spawn class of characters, each with their skills and loadouts... But first i will finish all the new weapons i planned to add (all the remaining unfinished weapons that were not included in the game) and finish all the descriptions for each so we know what we are using better. I may revisit the AI too, but without feedback i'm not sure what to improve on them. 
james_austintx
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:08 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by james_austintx »

Here is what I have seen from the AI.

-They use grenades a lot more.
-They are very willing to pull out a melee weapon. This is also a bad thing because I have seen them pull out a weapon and run towards a target but they are still not close enough to hit. So they get shot to death. When they are close enough, they will maul the target in melee.

They seem to run around a lot and do things like kneel, move, kneel, then they never shoot. A good map to see this is the Safari map when you side with the bandits to kill the civis....


They did that before your A.I. tweaks though, but I do see a lot more aggressive behavior from them in general.

Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

ORIGINAL: james_austintx

Here is what I have seen from the AI.

-They use grenades a lot more.

But do they use them when it makes sense to? The way i coded them, the chance they use them increase with the number of enemies that can potentially be caught in the blast, but unless there are a lot of enemies, they should avoid throwing if a friend is close by (20% chance by enemy, -60% per friend in a radius of 7 meters).
-They are very willing to pull out a melee weapon. This is also a bad thing because I have seen them pull out a weapon and run towards a target but they are still not close enough to hit. So they get shot to death. When they are close enough, they will maul the target in melee.

I did try to make them smarter about this, maybe i should add an AP check so they don't attempt this when too low in AP.
They seem to run around a lot and do things like kneel, move, kneel, then they never shoot. A good map to see this is the Safari map when you side with the bandits to kill the civis....

Well, that can be easily fixed, i just did not code a different behavior against harmless targets in the current AI. As for never shooting, in my test they seemed to do fine, doing less useless movements and shooting more. But i also coded them to stop and rest when low in stamina, i guess that part could be refined a bit more because right now they may just stop their turn early before attacking at least once.
They did that before your A.I. tweaks though, but I do see a lot more aggressive behavior from them in general.

That's what i was aiming for. Did you notice they hide a lot more?
james_austintx
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:08 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by james_austintx »

I have not noticed if they hide more yet, but I have only played an hour or two with your new settings.

Also, they DO seem to use grenades a heck of a lot better with your tweaks.
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

ORIGINAL: james_austintx

I have not noticed if they hide more yet, but I have only played an hour or two with your new settings.

Also, they DO seem to use grenades a heck of a lot better with your tweaks.

Nice, that's what i was aiming for (i did missread it at first).
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

I found a small bug with enemies inventory. Due to the changes i made to ammo clips and some other equipment, enemies often spawn with missing equipment (like no ammos for their guns). Since i planed to redo the enemies loadouts anyway, i will fix that along the way.
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

New version is coming along, it should be ready this week. The AI has been improved, the weapon description are almost done, and i plan on reworking the enemy loadout and tweak the appearance of several character in game (using already existing skins). I also made a complete list of the weapons in the mod :

From Jagged edge Reinforced : Rx4 Storm, Bushmaster ACR, G36C, G36k, MP7A1, HK416, HK416 Carbine, HK417, SCAR-L, SCAR-H, SIG556, M99 Beretta Sniper rifle, AK-74M, Groza, FN FaL DMR, HK21E LMG, HK MG43, M249 SAW, PKP Pecheneg, TKB-0145K Sniper rifle, L96A1 Accuracy International PM, Steyr Scout, PGM 338, RAI Model 300, SVN-98, V-94 "Vzlomscik", AT4, GM-94.

From this mod : AR-15, Berdysh, Grach, S&W 5906, TMP, Vikhr, Kiparis, PK, RPK, FN49, PSS, Machete, Small Knife (it's a throwing knife, but can't be thrown), Kinjal, Kuchil,
Brass knuckles.
 
QTQuazar
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:04 pm

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by QTQuazar »

Using your mod so far and enjoying it--makes this a bit more playable. Playing at Medium level, patched to 1.007.001, mod installed after patching.

Bug and Exploits (sorry if these aren't your mod's--I quit playing vanilla after half an hour in--too easy)

Major Exploit: Medikits can be used indefinitely to heal. In JA2, they would patch you up but you would have to heal through the orange with a doctor or such. In HG, you can fully heal your character by just repeatedly using the kit. Is this mod-related exploit or vanilla exploit? It's a game-breaker. Needs to be mentioned in tech support if it's not yours or Reinforce's mod's fault.

Bug: Trying to equip 30.08 ammo (as opposed to aught 6) crashes me to desktop. I think it highlights incorrectly for 30.06 weapons. Something is off, anyway.

I can also confirm james_austintx 's comments about the AI. It's not just non-combatants like on Safari--I just finished playing through the DAM. Had two mercs crossing the bridge, covering at the nests. Two enemies were at the end of the bridge. Kneeling inside the nests meant enemies couldn't get a line of fire. So they would walk back and forth at the end of the bridge, kneeling and standing up, ad infinitum. Many other enemies also did this on the map when they didn't have a clear line of fire, rather than moving to a concealed position or charging me--either of which at least would have given them a fighting chance.

At other times, they simply don't move even when it's obvious they're going to be caught in a crossfire or when they KNOW you're just around the corner. You can duck around corners, spray them, and they won't come after you on your turn (again, tested this in back of the dam). In JA2, if you missed coming around a corner, you knew you were
taking serious damage the next round.

Finally--perhaps weapon distances can be reduced? Kills are becoming even easier than vanilla. My 48-accuracy Merc with an M1 Garand hits really damn frequently for his skill level. Think some tweaking still needs to be done here.

Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

ORIGINAL: QTQuazar
Bug and Exploits (sorry if these aren't your mod's--I quit playing vanilla after half an hour in--too easy)

Major Exploit: Medikits can be used indefinitely to heal. In JA2, they would patch you up but you would have to heal through the orange with a doctor or such. In HG, you can fully heal your character by just repeatedly using the kit. Is this mod-related exploit or vanilla exploit? It's a game-breaker. Needs to be mentioned in tech support if it's not yours or Reinforce's mod's fault.

I haven't changed anything with the medkits. But according to what i can read in the file, they should eventually run out so you can't use them forever. I can always reduce how much they can heal before running out...
Bug: Trying to equip 30.08 ammo (as opposed to aught 6) crashes me to desktop. I think it highlights incorrectly for 30.06 weapons. Something is off, anyway.

Hum, i checked the files and did not find anything wrong, but i haven't tried the weapon myself (was made by reinforce), i will check.
I can also confirm james_austintx 's comments about the AI. It's not just non-combatants like on Safari--I just finished playing through the DAM. Had two mercs crossing the bridge, covering at the nests. Two enemies were at the end of the bridge. Kneeling inside the nests meant enemies couldn't get a line of fire. So they would walk back and forth at the end of the bridge, kneeling and standing up, ad infinitum. Many other enemies also did this on the map when they didn't have a clear line of fire, rather than moving to a concealed position or charging me--either of which at least would have given them a fighting chance.

Next version should fix this, the code has been improved a lot. I'm still working on it though.
At other times, they simply don't move even when it's obvious they're going to be caught in a crossfire or when they KNOW you're just around the corner. You can duck around corners, spray them, and they won't come after you on your turn (again, tested this in back of the dam). In JA2, if you missed coming around a corner, you knew you were
taking serious damage the next round.

Hum, i haven't experienced it yet (started to mod before getting that far).
Finally--perhaps weapon distances can be reduced? Kills are becoming even easier than vanilla. My 48-accuracy Merc with an M1 Garand hits really damn frequently for his skill level. Think some tweaking still needs to be done here.

I don't like having weapons that are extremely short ranged, ranges are increased in my mod. Range just give you an extra penality when you are too far. But there are alternatives to messing with the weapon stats, i can increase the accuracy modifier in constant.xml, this should make it harder to shoot with low skills. You can experiement it yourself, just find the lines "accuracy_mod" and increase the number. I did it already, but maybe the number is too low.
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

I just experimented with "accuracy_mod" constant, i guess it's possible to have a descent setting for accuracy vs skills. I increased the values for the next version.
QTQuazar
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:04 pm

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by QTQuazar »

sounds good! thanks for the quick reply, and great news on the AI. and i agree--shortening ranges is likely not the best solution. accuracy is probably the preferable route. i do wonder, however, looking at JA2 as a base, whether there was some kind of ratio between all the weapons (rather than a set 'distance')

as for the medikit issue, i was guessing it wasn't yours, but i think you've missed my point:

in JA2, when you used medikit to 'bandage' your mercs, it would simply change your health bar from yellow (bleeding) to orange (bandaged but wounded). over time, either with a doctor or hospital, that merc would heal up and the orange would change to red (real health). if you were especially low in health (most of your bar yellow or close to dead in other words) when you used medikit you would regain a bit of red as well at first (especially moving from unconscious to conscious) when you used medikit. but after that initial gain, the red would not rise from *medikit use* (because no matter how many bandages you slap on that bullet hole, it's not going anywhere for a while)

IN HG, you can simply use the medikit to heal yourself right up. every use of the medikit adds a few points of REAL HEALTH--red bar. thus, i can break off firefights, sit around clicking up my merc's health, and re-engage the firefight at full health. it's like having a cleric cast cure light wounds on my merc every round.

that's a serious exploit. i've taken a merc from unconscious to almost full health across 10 rounds of combat. i don't know what they're putting in those medikits, but it can apparently cure multiple gunshot and stab wounds. makes absolutely no sense.

anyway, try it out, and hopefully you can confirm this behaviour. aside from that, i do think the medikits get 'used up' too slowly in game. their point is portability and versatility, so they can't have a huge amount of everything. in JA2, they seemed to deplete at an appropriate speed, to the point where you could be caught short of materials if you hadn't prepared well for a particularly nasty fight on hardcore.

cheers!
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

ORIGINAL: QTQuazar

as for the medikit issue, i was guessing it wasn't yours, but i think you've missed my point:

in JA2, when you used medikit to 'bandage' your mercs, it would simply change your health bar from yellow (bleeding) to orange (bandaged but wounded). over time, either with a doctor or hospital, that merc would heal up and the orange would change to red (real health). if you were especially low in health (most of your bar yellow or close to dead in other words) when you used medikit you would regain a bit of red as well at first (especially moving from unconscious to conscious) when you used medikit. but after that initial gain, the red would not rise from *medikit use* (because no matter how many bandages you slap on that bullet hole, it's not going anywhere for a while)

IN HG, you can simply use the medikit to heal yourself right up. every use of the medikit adds a few points of REAL HEALTH--red bar. thus, i can break off firefights, sit around clicking up my merc's health, and re-engage the firefight at full health. it's like having a cleric cast cure light wounds on my merc every round.

that's a serious exploit. i've taken a merc from unconscious to almost full health across 10 rounds of combat. i don't know what they're putting in those medikits, but it can apparently cure multiple gunshot and stab wounds. makes absolutely no sense.

I noticed that problem when i first played the demo, but in the current version i'm using (1.07), it works like JA2 (ie, it just bandage, not heal). Maybe something when wrong when you patched...
QTQuazar
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:04 pm

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by QTQuazar »

huh. i'll have to check the patch again, i guess. i don't have the game installed in the standard directory, but it should have read the location correctly off the registry, i would think.

i can't find a version number indicator anywhere in game. am i missing something obvious?

also, i was toying around in the .xml files, and I'm thinking of re-writing the entire English dialog, since the current version is... well... embarrassing, to the point of even being confusing at times or not giving you the proper conversation keys to make a reasonable guess at the outcome of what you're saying.

this would be a major project, so i was wondering if anyone in the modders had dialogue trees available, or whether there was a program to recreate them, rather than me trying to abstract everything out of context (or worse yet, trying to hunt down every option in game)

would this project be worthwhile to others? also, is it feasible for you to code new trees (with resultant triggers and actions), in the future, if i did the dialogue? or is the game code too closed? some situations like the 'safari' don't exactly offer you a wide range of choices. if that isn't possible, i'd at least like to vary the text for certain mercs to add their own personality or spin.

on that note, do the Mercs ever interact with each other? that was the best part of the JA series, IMO--finding out when one hated another, having them break into gunfights among themselves, Larry falling off the wagon, Ivan learning English over the course of two games. miss that. they had personality. made you care when one got whacked.
Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

ORIGINAL: QTQuazar

also, i was toying around in the .xml files, and I'm thinking of re-writing the entire English dialog, since the current version is... well... embarrassing, to the point of even being confusing at times or not giving you the proper conversation keys to make a reasonable guess at the outcome of what you're saying.

I'm currently redoing a lot of the game myself, but rewriting the dialogs isn't one thing i plan on doing. At least someone should do it :).
would this project be worthwhile to others? also, is it feasible for you to code new trees (with resultant triggers and actions), in the future, if i did the dialogue? or is the game code too closed? some situations like the 'safari' don't exactly offer you a wide range of choices. if that isn't possible, i'd at least like to vary the text for certain mercs to add their own personality or spin.

I think it would complement my own work well. I believe you can add a lot to the game dialogs and their consequences, the game scripts are very flexible and powerful.
on that note, do the Mercs ever interact with each other? that was the best part of the JA series, IMO--finding out when one hated another, having them break into gunfights among themselves, Larry falling off the wagon, Ivan learning English over the course of two games. miss that. they had personality. made you care when one got whacked.

Yes they do.
Foraven
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

Oh and by the way, the new version is nearly done. I greatly improved the ai by fixing broken code and adding a few features like prioritizing targets and managing breath. But my mod is getting too big, i will need a place to host it.
Foraven
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RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

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Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

My new AI is almost completed. It will be much better than the last once i have rooted out the last few bugs.
Foraven
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RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

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Foraven
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 am

RE: The Fine Tuned mod

Post by Foraven »

Version 1.4 is up. Enjoy :).

I did not have time to redo the enemy inventory yet, but i plan to do it soon. Also, there are a few description i did not have time to redo, it will also be done later. 
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