Ouch! Pearl Harbour Wipeout..

[Laxplayer]

In my first game vs. AI, I had the opposite extreme happen... Only one CL sunk, and 2 of the BBs will be back online in under 3 weeks. KB didn't linger either.

But my lucky result hasn't mattered all that much... I'm still getting my ass handed to me everywhere else! [:D]

[Xxzard]

Is it guided torpedoes or stationary ships? [:D]

[Captain57]

Dec 12th and Pearl Harbor is STILL under attack. Four BB's sunk and the others aren't far behind. Nothing but some Subs in the area to harass the fleet. US Carriers sailing fast to help but this is bad... real bad. War is hell. Damn that Yamamoto.

US Navy MUST rally. Philippines faltering. Hong Kong about to go. US Citizens are in a panic and there is some strange fat guy smoking a cigar in a P40 flying over San Fran.

[bsq]

Same here now - the KB has come back at least twice. May try the 8 Dec scenario and see if the KB comes back at all

Still averaging 5 BB's per first turn at PH sunk. The range is from 0 to all 8, but mostly it's 5 BB's. The AI is lot more aggressive in the first few days and no where near historical, even when it is set to historical.

Did someone beef up Nagumo's stats to make him risk the KB in follow up attacks?

[pturky]

Just done beta patch and done 1st turn 5 times to see the differant results and i must say they were, from 5 BB sunk to the last go were 1 Avd was sunk at Dava in Phillipines and none sunk at Pearl Harbor.So i have lost 1 ship on 1st turn so i think that was a good spread over the 1st turn

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Top Cat

Just started Campaign as Americans (December 7 start).

Be warned the Japs. have guided torpedoes

Japanese just sank 7 Battleships and the Tennessee, Prince of Wales and Repulse won't survive the night either.

Welcome to the wonderfull world of pure BS. Three of those torpedoed BB's (and several other vessels) were historically totally invulnerable to "fish", being moored "inboard" or in drydock at the time. This result is totally beyond any reality possible...

The Historical Japanese attack totally destroyed two BB's and a few other ships, and did serious damage to many others...., besides trashing most of the A/C on the island. And this was with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING going wrong with the Japanese tactical plans! They got total suprise, no CAP, completely unprepared targets..., everything they wished for, but didn't really expect.

It's hard to see how they could have done much better than they did other than with follow up attacks (not a part of this discussion), and impossible to explain this 3-400% better result. It's just too much!

[Mike Solli]

The results are a bell curve with the left end being the raid didn't find Pearl Harbor.  (I had that happen in a game with Dixie.  I know it can happen.)  The right end of the bell curve is what happened above.  Test the Pearl Harbor attack 30 times and take the average.  If the average is similar to the above, then complain.  The above is an anomoly, just like my attack against Dixie. 

[Mike Solli]

The results are a bell curve with the left end being the raid didn't find Pearl Harbor.  (I had that happen in a game with Dixie.  I know it can happen.)  The right end of the bell curve is what happened above.  Test the Pearl Harbor attack 30 times and take the average.  If the average is similar to the above, then complain.  The above is an anomoly, just like my attack against Dixie. 

[Mike Solli]

The results are a bell curve with the left end being the raid didn't find Pearl Harbor.  (I had that happen in a game with Dixie.  I know it can happen.)  The right end of the bell curve is what happened above.  Test the Pearl Harbor attack 30 times and take the average.  If the average is similar to the above, then complain.  The above is an anomoly, just like my attack against Dixie. 

[Historiker]

Major Spammer is back! [:D]

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

The results are a bell curve with the left end being the raid didn't find Pearl Harbor.  (I had that happen in a game with Dixie.  I know it can happen.)  The right end of the bell curve is what happened above.  Test the Pearl Harbor attack 30 times and take the average.  If the average is similar to the above, then complain.  The above is an anomoly, just like my attack against Dixie. 

That's even better then what I had, raid did find Pearl, but only managed to sink a CA, AVD and DM. Everything smaller then a BB will be out of the yards in less then 40 days and only 3 BB will have to head back to the WC, the others only need a couple of weeks of yard time.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

The results are a bell curve with the left end being the raid didn't find Pearl Harbor.  (I had that happen in a game with Dixie.  I know it can happen.)  The right end of the bell curve is what happened above.  Test the Pearl Harbor attack 30 times and take the average.  If the average is similar to the above, then complain.  The above is an anomoly, just like my attack against Dixie. 

Try it yourself. You will find that the only thing that comes up "below average" are Japanese A/C losses.
And my point was that "the right end of the bell curve" couldn't be what happened above, it should be below it. The top of the "bell curve" should be exacty the historic results..., maybe even less. There was plenty that could have gone wrong tactically with the attack, but very little that could have been better.

The game provides plenty of opportunity for KB to launch a-historic follow up attacks..., we ought to keep the original one within the bounds of reality.

[Mike Solli]

Mike, I'd do it if I had the time.  I just think that claiming the game is broken without testing is wasting time.
 
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion.  So is everyone else.

[Mike Solli]

Mike, I'd do it if I had the time.  I just think that claiming the game is broken without testing is wasting time.
 
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion.  So is everyone else.

[Mike Solli]

Mike, I'd do it if I had the time.  I just think that claiming the game is broken without testing is wasting time.
 
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion.  So is everyone else.

[anarchyintheuk]

Trying to get to 10k quicker? [;)]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Mike, I'd do it if I had the time.  I just think that claiming the game is broken without testing is wasting time. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion.  So is everyone else.

I have tested it. Throughout the AE developement phase. But you aren't the type to accept anyone's experiance but your own..., so I suggest you test it so you will understand what I'm talking about.

[Erik Rutins]

Hey Mike,

Would you accept my experience? I ran over 50 PH attack tests not long before release, then re-ran 50 more tests with the release build and found that the averages for BB losses were roughly historical. There's definitely a bell curve and extreme results are possible, but for the one day attack the results are about right.

If KB attacks for more than one day, of course, that changes things. The information I've seen suggests that KB could have continued attacking if it had chosen to do so. More importantly, the subject matter experts on the team believe that as well and they know a lot more about it than I do.

Regards,

- Erik

[AcePylut]

I'd support the bell curve.  I"ve been plotting the Jap First Turn vs AI for over a month now (I have an allied PBEM and allied AI game going on too), and every time I get to a "stopping point" for the evening, I run the first turn.  SO far, I've had one turn over the last 20-30 or so that produced a PH butchery.  Most of the turns produce semi-historical results (2-3 BB sunk), a couple of turns produced less than that, and oen turn produced nothing (Kates decided to not carry torps, the most heavily damaged Allied BB had some 22 float damage and 30ish sys damage).

I put more nells/bettys in SE Asia on Naval Attack, and probably sink the POW and Reuplse 70% of the time.  Sink one of them another 25% of the time, and probably once or twice I've not sunk either of them.  This is with "focused nav search and attack" (I LOOOOVVVVVEEEE the ability to set search arcs - it soooo lets you focus your naval attacks to a certain sector)
 
All in all, I support the bell curve in what I've seen. 

[anarchyintheuk]

KB could have stayed for another day but they probably would have been out of their modified torpedoes and 16" shells/bombs.