Artillery

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

It's usually called "running" and believe you me you would be surprised at just how fast you can move with a mortar base plate when under pressure. [:)]

I wonder how long I could do that in the deeply wooded Ardennes of the Bulge?

I'm thinking of the Band of Brothers segment where the paras were shelled by arty in the woods; even prepared positions didn't seem to help them much, but they had to hold the line.

[Arjuna]

Do you also recall from earlier on in the same series where the 506th were defending a ridge line in the Normandy hedgerows and all but easy company routed off from their dug in positions. These were elite troops too.

[wodin]

Dave they where elite but still had little combat experience at that point..so elite training but not experienced so made a big mistake running away. I think that was most likely an exception to the rule fue to a lack of experience.

If troops routed like that under combat conditions on a regular basis then WW1 would have been over in a flash.

[Arjuna]

I acknowledge that in Normandy the 101st was not as experienced as it was by the time of the Ardenne but it had already been blooded in North Africa and Sicily. So these were not green troops.

I'm no expert on WW1 but IIRC standard practice was to back up the line in belts of trenches and have troops in these to storm forward to retake the trenches abandoned by the fleeing front liners.

[wodin]

Most Arty attacks in WW1 the troops stuck it out in the forward trenches, if an attack came over and it wasn't just a mornign hate then uyes the second line coy would move upto the first trench if it had been obliterated. Though no they didn't all run out of the trench when arty came in. The only time troops routed out of the lines was the first gas attack in April '15 I think. Some battalions where known for bad fighters but on the whole they stuck it out in whatever trench they had been put in. Many sectors on the western front where hit by arty during the day with no attack coming afterwards and the troops sat it out...in an attack they got their heads down and they where either obliterated or when the arty lifted they got onto the firestep. Very rarely would they rout down the communication trenches even during the massive german assault the forward lines stuck to the task for awhile before they retreated and that was when the masses of germans started appearing out of the fog more so than the actual bombardment before.

The Germans starting manning the front line with less troops and had counter attack coys in the third and fourth line. The frontline troops took it until death during a major attack. You'd get a few here and there who withdrew and that was when they knew they were about to be cut off.

I'd still say defending dug in or entrenched units should very rarely leave their protection..only total moral breakdown..mass casualites or the realisation they have troops moving around them and towards their rear.

The Germans would have been what you call entrenched during the Somme and sat out a weeks bombardment.

You are right about the coys waiting to counter attack but it wasn't because of fleeing frontliners but because the frontline was about to be wiped out totally with the forntline men either dead dying or still valiantly holding on in the frontline trench. Again the fornt line wasn't heavily manned to keep casualties low, but enough to hold on until the backup arrived...hopefully. You will be hard pressed to find accounts of mass ranks fleeing the frontline trenches in WW1. Where the men made of sterner stuff than WW2...maybe. Was it due to the possibilty of being shot for cowardise...possibly.

[Arjuna]

Wodin, we're talking at cross purpose here. I realise you are talking only about routs from arty while I'm talking about routs from assaults and arty. Point taken. I'll look into it.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

I'm no expert on WW1 but IIRC standard practice was to back up the line in belts of trenches and have troops in these to storm forward to retake the trenches abandoned by the fleeing front liners.

Or just waltz over no mans land on a sunny afternoon and clear out the enemy positions[8D]

You just cant guarantee what a unit of any experience will do on a given day or hour.

[JeffroK]

Plus most of the 101st was green in Normandy, just not the sort of green troops you want to run into in a dark alley.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Do you also recall from earlier on in the same series where the 506th were defending a ridge line in the Normandy hedgerows and all but easy company routed off from their dug in positions ...

"Well hello, 2nd Armored" remains one of my favorite lines in the BoB series as 2AD was my old division!

[Arimus]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

It's usually called "running" and believe you me you would be surprised at just how fast you can move with a mortar base plate when under pressure. [:)]

I have seen guys who complained about marching so far, carrying so much, all of a sudden leap a barb wire fence carrying an M60 and full pack when a training bombardment was set off. He would have jumped a building if it was real.

As for running from a bombardment, happened lots of times. Also many units just hit the dirt and stayed there.

IMVHO it should be relative to unit morale, fatigue & leadership as to whether they bug out and maybe get minimal losses or hit the dirt with the possibility of increased losses.

Amen Brother!

[Deathtreader]

Hi,

As long as we're talking artillery, I'd sure like to be able to dedicate the odd on call arty unit to counter-battery fire. Maybe a new checkbox for arty units in the next game -- unless somebody has figured out a way to do it now. Other than manually that is..........
The AI will occasionally do so but not always enough (for me anyway) esp when an on call battery is sitting there doing nothing between other fires and recon has positively identified a juicy enemy arty unit just begging to get pasted.

Rob.[:)]

[Arjuna]

The Ai already does counter-battery fire but there is currently no way for the human player to dedicate arty to do so. Good suggestion.