Iran-Iraq War DLC

[nukkxx5058]

Iran-Iraq sounds great ! 1991 Gulf war too,
post 911 middle east war would be good too (Iraq, afghanistan, recent syrian conflict)

I'm definietly interested.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Iran-Iraq sounds great ! 1991 Gulf war too,
post 911 middle east war would be good too (Iraq, afghanistan, recent syrian conflict)

I'm definietly interested.

Post-1991 'conflicts' are more or less asymmetric rather than field armies facing each others. IMHO, those 'little nasty wars' are best simulated on a squad/fire-team base per unit.

Klink, Oberst

[Jason Petho]

Cold War will be a separate game, we have a pre-Alpha build already, but it’s not due in the queue for a couple years.

[Hexagon]

Thanks for the info.

Well, i ask about DLCs because i know that you talk about a pure "historical" cold war title (i remember coment about Iran-Irak inclusion, you talk about India-Pakistan wars, Korea??? even South Africa wars) and maybe a 2nd "what if" title in a more serious WWIII with the main actors (ala Tiller modern campaigns).

Read about an Iran-Irak war DLC for CM was somethign unexpected because i expect it in a new title... this is why i ask to about Gulf war because is a title that could enter in CM area or in a cold war historical wars title.

I think that for Gulf war only thing that game really needs is deal with thermal vision systems... this could be done like in Steel Panthers with an "all time" vision range for vehicles using them, for example an Abrams can allways see what is in 4 hexes all around in night or low visibility situations, of course in a WWIII title things like mines deployed by arty is needed (i dont know well if as is game now MLRS are well covered or not).

Post 91 wars are more based in minor actions with a lot of guerrilla warfare but well, is question to add more meat to the action, is like in a WWIII title have same scens set in diferent years... you can try same situation with 50s-70s-80s hardware [;)]

I am curious if in Iran-Irak war all is going to be based in historical battles or we can have some "hipotetical" scens-campaigns because both sides have interesting material to have good scens but is not like they used them at 100% (i still remember "Flight commander 2" Irak campaign with Mirages hehehe) and well, is even possible see some exotic things like Type 69 QM2 with the 125mm gun from Assad Babyl "do it yourself" [:D]

[CaptainKoloth]

Actually Iraq used Mirage F-1s extensively in the Iran-Iraq and Gulf Wars.

[Jason Petho]

Cold War might up being a mix of historical and hypothetical, lots of ideas but nothing 100% commited yet. DLCs for the core game may be based on certain areas, events or something.

Iran-Iraq War DLCwill be mostly historical, with a possible hypothetical included.

[Jason Petho]

Here are some sample Iranian divisions:

79 01 83 12 D5740220 4 Armoured Division 79 - Shir1/M113A1 - B - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
79 01 83 12 G5730234 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1/M113A1 - B - Ir
79 01 83 12 G5730237 Armoured Brigade 79 - M60/M113A1 - B - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
79 01 83 12 B5711229 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M101A1 105mmx6/M35
79 01 83 12 B5716210 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/BMP-1 - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5715209 Engineer Battalion 79 - Armoured Support
79 01 83 12 B5713204 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M150/M151A2-TOW
79 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
79 01 88 12 P577036 M35

79 01 83 12 D5742233 3 Mechanized Infantry Division 79 - M47M 90mm - C - US - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
79 01 83 12 G5732251 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm/BTR-60PB - C - US
79 01 83 12 G5732251 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm/BTR-60PB - C - US
79 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
79 01 83 12 B5711228 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
79 01 83 12 B5716209 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5715210 Engineer Battalion 79 - Motorized
79 01 83 12 B5713205 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M151-SS11/M825-106mm
79 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
79 01 88 12 P577036 M35


81 01 83 12 D5740222 5 Armoured Division 81 - Shir1 Mk-5 - A - Ir - 0VP
81 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
81 01 83 12 G5730233 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1 Mk-5 - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 G5730233 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1 Mk-5 - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
81 01 83 12 B5711229 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M101A1 105mmx6/M35
81 01 83 12 B5716210 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/BMP-1 - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5715209 Engineer Battalion 79 - Armoured Support
81 01 83 12 B5713204 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M150/M151A2-TOW
81 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
81 01 88 12 P577036 M35


81 01 83 12 D5742237 5 Mechanized Infantry Division 81 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir - 0VP
81 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
81 01 83 12 G5732249 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 G5732249 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 G5732249 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
81 01 83 12 B5711229 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
81 01 83 12 B5716209 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5715210 Engineer Battalion 79 - Motorized
81 01 83 12 B5713205 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M151-SS11/M825-106mm
81 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
81 01 88 12 P577036 M35


84 01 88 12 D5742241 5 Mechanized Infantry Division 84 - Shir1/M113A1/BTR-60PB - A - Ir - 0VP
84 01 88 12 P573004 Division HQ
84 01 88 12 G5732267 Mechanized Brigade 84 - BMP-1/BTR-60PB - A - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5732267 Mechanized Brigade 84 - BMP-1/BTR-60PB - A - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5730242 Armoured Brigade 84 - Shir1 Mk5x14
84 01 88 12 B5711235 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-109x6
84 01 88 12 B5711236 Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
84 01 88 12 B5716212 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 84 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir
84 01 88 12 B5715212 Engineer Battalion 84 - Armoured Support
84 01 88 12 B5718215 Mechanized Anti-Aircraft Battalion 84 - ZSU-23-4/ZSU-57-2
84 01 88 12 P577036 M35


84 01 88 12 D5742245 4 Mechanized Infantry Division 84 - M60A1/M113A1/BTR-50P/BTR-60PB - B - Ir - 0VP
84 01 88 12 P573004 Division HQ
84 01 88 12 G5732271 Mechanized Brigade 84 - M113A1/BTR-60PB - B - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5732274 Mechanized Brigade 84 - BTR-50P/BTR-60PB - B - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5730243 Armoured Brigade 84 - M60A1x14
84 01 88 12 B5711235 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-109x6
84 01 88 12 B5711236 Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
84 01 88 12 B5716213 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 84 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/BMP-1 - Ir
84 01 88 12 B5715212 Engineer Battalion 84 - Armoured Support
84 01 88 12 B5718215 Mechanized Anti-Aircraft Battalion 84 - ZSU-23-4/ZSU-57-2
84 01 88 12 P577036 M35

[Jason Petho]

Typical Iranian Division in the 50's.

49 01 62 12 D5742204 5 Infantry Division 49 - A - 0VP
49 01 62 12 P573004 Division HQ
49 01 62 12 R5722204 Infantry Regiment 49 - A
49 01 62 12 R5722204 Infantry Regiment 49 - A
49 01 62 12 R5722204 Infantry Regiment 49 - A
49 01 62 12 R5721202 Artillery Regiment 48 - 105mm Skoda/Wagons
49 01 62 12 P577048 M37

[Hexagon]

Thanks for the info, nice see some kind of hypothetical content in the DLC.

Is a little strange dont see infantry component in the armored divisions... well, maybe they use together mech and armored divisions.

My only problem is maybe have all split in 2 or even more titles, i prefer allways have 1 single instalation, like in FOG2, and well a WWIII title is allways atractive specially if receive diferent things to complete it.


PD:I refer to the "Flight commander 2" campaign based in tactical situations not 100% historical, i know that Irak used Mirages that was maybe the more well know exportation plane from France in the area (apart Gazelles).

[Jason Petho]

Sample Armoured Brigade

79 01 83 12 G5730233 5 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1/M113A1 - A - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573006 Brigade HQ
79 01 83 12 B5710214 Tank Battalion 79 - Shir1 Mk-3
79 01 83 12 B5710215 Tank Battalion 79 - Shir1 Mk5
79 01 83 12 B5712320 Infantry Battalion 79 - A - M113A1 - Ir - Armoured
79 01 83 12 P577005 M577

Sample Mechanized Brigade

79 01 83 12 G5732243 5 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M60/BTR-50P/BTR-60PB - A - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573006 Brigade HQ
79 01 83 12 B5710216 Tank Battalion 79 - M60A1
79 01 83 12 B5712394 Infantry Battalion 79 - A - BTR-50P - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5712326 Infantry Battalion 79 - A - BTR-60PB - US
79 01 83 12 P577005 M577

[Jason Petho]

FYI, the "Ir" and "US" notations indicate the primary weapon types of the infantry platoons.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

FYI, the "Ir" and "US" notations indicate the primary weapon types of the infantry platoons.

What always amazed me is, how they managed to keep the US imported F-4's flying without spares after the embargo...

Klink, Oberst

[Jason Petho]

Cannibalizing...

When the going gets rough, the rough cannibalize.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Cannibalizing...

When the going gets rough, the rough cannibalize.

True... but still... they must have managed it better than the 'Galactica' cannibalising the old Viper models

Klink, Oberst

[Hexagon]

Ummm i imagine that "Ir" refers to the prewar iranian army equipment (G3 assault rifles enter in this category) later maybe we can see "CN" designation for chinese equipment even "SV" for soviet... i know very little about Iran-Irak war but the armament supply is like Game of Thrones but with more cliff angers and jetpack moments (i refer to the TV show [:D])

I see strange the lack of a mech infantry brigade in iranian armored divisions but well, they use the west "king size" tank battalions and maybe they have bigger mech infantry battalion in the armored brigades and is not like they have a lot of material even in early part of war to mantein a generous mech infantry support.

I remember read to about how good was Irak to keep working their high tech equipment even with no support, looks like arab countries apart of be specialist in burn good material with a bad use from semiprofesional armies they can use when they dont have supplies a good amount of inventiveness... but not allways they hit the target [:D]

I think Quasimodo finds his armored couterpart [8|]
https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/d ... mor_id=902

With this i am divided in 2... increase armor good, do it with reactive armor in a thin armored vehicle... i prefer dont be inside or outside [X(]

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=464192

[Jason Petho]

There are “Cz” (Czech arms, from the 40’ through 60’s, although some infantry units were still armed with them at the time of the war, “US”. ( US arms started arriving in the 50’s, “Ir” ( locally produced under licence arms of various origin) and “Co” for the usual Communist weapons

The 80’s orbats are based on Micro mark lists

[Jason Petho]

The 40’s through 70’s are based on various intelligence and army reports

[Af1352pasha]

As I think Before 1950-1960 there is not major interest about oob! most of division was purely infantry with one regiment of artillery and some support armored car and light tank versions.

Most important period was 1970s which in that duration major reformation of equipment happened.new air force fighters new naval equipment and base on CS-ME ground force structure changed.

Unfortunately there is no certain information about composition of Iranian army before eve of war with Iraq clear. we shall consider general formation base on available data.

Jason Petho order sample order of battle is correct but it need some minor adjustment such as armored cavalry organization! BMP-1 was newly imported at that time from soviet about 150 Pcs but some used after start of war to organized mechanized infantry battalion and some used to refitted armored cavalry battalions which was heavily damaged during first week of war to slow the advance of Iraqi invasion , good sample was 283rd Armored cavalry battalion ( it consist 21 x scorpion tanks , 6 M113 Tow and 9 120mm M113 mortar carrier which changed later its armored carrier to BMP-1.before that and as normal oob it used BTR-60 as its troop carrier.

Look at below oob for on armored cavalry company of Iranian army, its is near to their general table of equipment such as us army in 1977:

[Af1352pasha]

next

[Af1352pasha]

next is BMP-1 version of Armored Cavlary: