Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

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BlueTemplar
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by BlueTemplar »

fb.asp?m=4952802
ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Well, a bigger gun does increase firepower indirectly, via its calibre !
By the way, why is there no intermediate howitzer calibre between 105 and 150mm ? 120mm would be perfect for ranged attacks against 40mm plating (like Combat Armor). Right now, you're forced to either go underpowered or overkill...

This is a great suggestion, however there needs to be some additional progression for firepower and costs, if you were to introduce right now a 20mm/5 attacks howitzer from the very start it would both be very expensive to field and absolutely SHRED <7mm plating targets !

So, let's see : right now a 25mm Howitzer costs 20 metal & 15 IP for 0.6 ammo/shot, while a 150mm Howitzer costs 50 Metal and 35 IP for 2.6 ammo / shot - both for a Padded Arty... hmm, now that I think of it, the 150mm with 6 time the calibre, 2 time the attacks and 2 time the attack power actually is waaaay too cheap (even for the ammo cost, which is only 4 times higher) !

And since both the 25mm and 150mm are available from the start, it's no wonder that players directly pick the biggest ! (At least for foot arty, where weight isn't a consideration.)
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4951892

So, at the very least, bigger calibre Howitzers (that foot arty can use) need to be made much more expensive to field and fire, because there's probably no point in using anything than the biggest 150mm!
(I didn't do the math for the stats of the intermediate calibres, but I guess it works in the same way?)
When smaller calibre is MORE expensive for its effective firepower rather than less, I don't see *any* point in designing a model with a smaller calibre, EVER.
The only situation I can think of would be if you're *so* lacking items that you can't even afford half a battallion / a battlegroup of 3 (whichever is the cheapest). But in that case you might want to instead slow down any construction you might have to 25% and/or buy the missing items from traders !
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newageofpower
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by newageofpower »

Well, weight. Light tanks with +15% movespeed can cover zoomed out plains with a good OHQ commander, and its almost impossible to do that while using 60mm guns.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by BlueTemplar »

That's why I said "when", and used towed arty as an example (I haven't done the math for other models yet).

AFAIK towed arty's model weight - different from logistic "bulk" weight of always 5 dat - has no effect whatsoever ?
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newageofpower
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by newageofpower »

Yeah, arty aren't hard targets though. Attacking into MGs with truck arty is... hairy.
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BlueTemplar
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by BlueTemplar »

Maybe, but I don't see what this has to do in this conversation, since we aren't talking exclusively about hard models ?
Also arty has (who would have thought it!) Ranged Attack !
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newageofpower
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by newageofpower »

My point was there are some combinations of weapons caliber and hard targetness that are useful for flanking/deep penetration tactics, rather than always mounting the biggest gun possible.

Yutowap (OP) specifically mentioned tanks, so I dunno why you're twisting your panties over me talking about how towed arty =/= tanks
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BlueTemplar
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by BlueTemplar »

You're right, my bad, I overreacted. [;)]
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BlueTemplar
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by BlueTemplar »

I hadn't noticed before, but what determines the biggest calibre that towed arty can use ?
It seems to go from 150mm to 300mm as the game progresses, but I haven't been to figure out what gives the intermediate 180mm and 240mm ?
zgrssd
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by zgrssd »

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

I hadn't noticed before, but what determines the biggest calibre that towed arty can use ?
It seems to go from 150mm to 300mm as the game progresses, but I haven't been to figure out what gives the intermediate 180mm and 240mm ?
I can remember Vic mentioning it once. I think it was general Techlevel?

I have no idea what to search for to find it right now, however.
mek42
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by mek42 »

Primarily for role-play reasons, for leg units (usually heavy siege infantry) I like to use no more than 88mm, to represent a 75mm pack howitzer sort of gun. For towed guns (i.e. I'm moving them with trucks or APCs), I tend to go big. For self-propelled guns, there would be a weight / engine size consideration.
eddieballgame
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by eddieballgame »

"Do not forget your dogs of war, your big guns, which are the most to be respected arguments of the rights of kings."
– Frederick the Great
zgrssd
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RE: Any practical reason to use low caliber guns?

Post by zgrssd »

Note that as far as AT guns are concerned, they have been a stopgap measure.
The invention of hollow charges, made the AT gun and it's optimisation for Muzzle velocity as a whole pretty pointless.
So in the game AT guns should only be used, until suiteable RPG's have been researched. Then just use RPG infantry.

High Velocity guns may still be usefull on tanks, however - who actuall add a lot of survivability to the guns pricetag.
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