Redrum68 (Allies) vs Lascar (Axis) #2 - Lascar Welcome

[stjeand]

That will basically destroy the entire German airforce with little effort.
I now build 2 air superiority for 6....
The experience makes little difference sadly when you have to fight 50% units...

But yes there were a lot of German mistakes here...I know how to get around the Luxemburg thing but...air wise that would be an issue.

[redrum68]

1) Axis should never use air in Poland. Maybe just me...all they do is lose air and have to rebuild. Leaving the Polish air changes nothing overall.

6 air hits I don't think had any impact on this game. I don't think it matters much if you use air or not since you probably take about as many extra land hits without using air in my experience.

2) I hate the Allies being allowed to attack Luxemburg...but if they do the Germans have to switch to hit Netherlands first then Belgium. Could be in the same turn if they are confident of that. Both should surrender in a turn at most. Belgium is not to strong...it is easy just need practice. SADLY you can not use the 1940 scenario to practice because the units are moved. NO idea why that is the case but they are. So my suggestion...Hotseat 1939 only play the Axis until you get to the invasion and save the game. Then you can play the attacks over and over practicing. BE very light on air use in those two places...you need all your air to be at 100% to hit France.

I dunno, I feel that Belgium should fall in 1 turn more easily and shouldn't require a bunch of practice. Weakening Belgium a bit also makes it less harsh if you don't take it in 1 turn.

3) Another very unrealistic and issue I see if the French fleet...they are basically a free suicidal unit that the Allies just use as mobile artillery. They make the Netherlands twice as difficult to take and can cause issues on the coast in Belgium. As the Allies I don't use this as I find it an exploit due to the fleet being able to be sunk and then returning fully repaired. Air attacks against it are just free damage for the Allies so try not too. I think they should be stuck in the Med, personally.

Agree, French fleet should be limited to the Med to avoid gamey uses of it.

For the big BEF, UK has four free infantry large corps at a strength of 5/30 at start. Reducing them to small corps or to division size is a first idea.

Second idea is to reduce the strength of their air superiority and bomber units to something like 10/20.

My thoughts were more that the UK must garrison their big ports with certain strength of units...if not they lose PP as people refuse to work due to fear.
Places like London, Southhampton, Liverpool...

These ideas would help some though not sure there is a way currently to force a certain strength of units so just weakening more of UK's starting units would probably be easier. The other approach is to weaken France instead so the UK would take the brunt of the attack and not have lots of French units to wear the Germans down. Decreasing France's starting ground experience from 40% to 35% would be a simple and effective change.

As for Luxemburg...
I say if it is invaded Belgium joins the Axis due to fear of the aggressive West.

Agree this is simple and avoids lots of complex triggers that your other options would require.

I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from a game where Germany fails to take Belgium.

Well, yes and no. Allies have 6 UK air superiority units plus 3 French air superiority units and 3 UK + 1 French Tactical bombers.
That's a lot of air power against Germany.

That will basically destroy the entire German airforce with little effort.
I now build 2 air superiority for 6....
The experience makes little difference sadly when you have to fight 50% units...

But yes there were a lot of German mistakes here...I know how to get around the Luxemburg thing but...air wise that would be an issue.

Indeed this is just 1 game and there were some Axis mistakes but its a real example of PvP at probably intermediate level. I'd love to see more high level AARs where people try a strong BEF in the current patch. We can theorize all we want but example games are the best way to see how different approaches play out.

[stjeand]

For me every point counts...
6 air may seem trivial but that cost is 12+ infantry.

Germany needs every point early.


BUT I am sorry to say it does take practice to take the Netherlands and Belgium in one turn.
I played multiple games to that point to practice over and over and had figured it out.

Then I got lazy and stopped which cost me that ability. Now I have to practice again.

There is some luck too...if UK air defends you may not take it.

I don't like the idea of making it completely trivial because there is a chance that the Allies decide to walk in, take it and dig in behind all the rivers.
That could be more difficult.


I am more than happy to AAR a few heavy BEF games if anyone is interested as I have no games going on a playing myself...well sucks.

[redrum68]

Isn't 6 air hits on average like 36 PP (say 300 average air unit cost / 20 hits * .4 repair rate * 6 hits)? That would be 10 infantry hits or 5 panzer hits which I would think is close to the extra hits you'd take without using air. While I get every PP matters that is really a small amount compared to the randomness of the BoA and other things. Also you don't need to pay that cost til Spring 40 as you can just turn off repairs for units in Poland.

I think if the Allies declare war on Belgium there should be a severe penalty like the Netherlands join Axis or something to avoid them doing that.

[stjeand]

You can...but when you have 12 air units with 10 str...you need a LOT of turns to repair them. At least 3...

My normal losses in Poland are less then 20 land....0 air.

I like to try to keep my experience for France since it will all be lost there with repairs. But again that is me.

6 air costs about that...
My game I lost 220 air...so that was pricey.