Great Game but...

[Platoonist]

I could see the possibility of USN CVs and BBs being repaired in a small port with the advent of massive floating dry docks. Made of concrete and towed into place. Battleships like the South Dakota and Iowa were repaired of battle damage in such far forward locations as Guam and Ulithi Atoll this way.

However, not before 1944 and only in limited numbers.

Wisconsin.jpg (404.41 KiB) Viewed 1079 times

[stjeand]

I had pondered the ability to repair them in a smaller port but only say 1 point...I just don't know how you would control that easily via the current game system.

Then again I consider efficiency to be "damage" just not significant enough to hinder the ships overall ability.

There were instances of large holes in the hull in a closed compartment so the ship could said and fight normally...but not something you want to leave.

[ncc1701e]

What about?

SS / PT / DD / CA can be fully repaired in port level 5 or higher.
BB / CVL / CV can be fully repaired in port level 9 only.

For bottomed BB / CVL / CV, in port level 5 to 8, the following rule:
1. Bottomed BB at a strength of 3/4, three turns from bottomed to allowed to move.
2. Bottomed BB at a strength of 2/4, six turns from bottomed to allowed to move.
3. Bottomed BB at a strength of 1/4, nine turns from bottomed to allowed to move.
4. Bottomed CV, CVL at a strength of 2/3, six turns from bottomed to allowed to move.
5. Bottomed CV, CVL at a strength of 1/3, nine turns from bottomed to allowed to move.

Any ships bottomed in a port level < 5 is lost for the remaining of the war.

[generalfdog]

idk That sounds dumb to always return to us mainland or Japan, Japan did repair many ships at forward bases like Truk and rabaul mostly performed by repair ship Akashi, The US did many forward repairs and i'm sure the Brits did some as well, there is just no way all damaged ships had to be chugged all that way back home just for some minor repairs maybe major refits, either way given the game scale I would say we should keep it as is, returning to a major port seems reasonable. maybe take a little more time.

[generalfdog]

Lava to each his own i guess but even though both wpp and wpe have some minor things i would consider issues they are minor and often after playing enough i realize they are not actually issues and that way for a reason. imho these are the BEST strategic level games period

[stjeand]

It may sound dumb but it was reality. I keep watching videos and reading about each CV and I have not read about one that repaired / refit outside of the mainland. I am sure there is an exception somewhere...like the Wisconsin the Platoonist showed but that was pretty rare...and I am sure took longer to repair than if they were in a port designed for that.

I consider ships in port recovering efficiency receiving minor repairs. When you take damage that is something major...so requires you to return for repairs.

I don't think you can have a game where ships never wear down due to damage while air and land forces do. It just does not make sense.

Finding the balance is the hope.

Right now...repairs and refits are unhistorically and unrealistically fast, where as ships wear down fast than they should.

[Platoonist]

When you read the online TROMs (Tabular Record of Movement) for Japanese capital ships, the invariable pattern for dealing with major damage is for the vessel to be dispatched to Japanese shipyards like Sasebo, Kure or Yokosuka. Ships might be patched up for the journey at forward bases like Rabaul or Truk, but the heavy lifting took place in Japan or very occasionally at the captured British engraving dock in Singapore.

The movements of the carrier Shokakau after the Battle of Santa Cruz in 1942: Emergency work at Truk for three days followed by four months in a Japanese shipyard.

Shokaku TROM.jpg (277.97 KiB) Viewed 961 times

[ncc1701e]

So, in order of priority, is it more changing ship repair or effectiveness lost at sea?

[stjeand]

So, in order of priority, is it more changing ship repair or effectiveness lost at sea?

Well to be honest I was putting the repair time in the efficiency settings.
As I said in other posts I feel that efficiency is a lot of things including minor damage and things like that.

SO if you change efficiency to be less which again I am total fine with...I would think you should increase repairs and even upgrades to be much longer and require specific ports for this.

Just would make more sense.

[ncc1701e]

#1 The Japanese should be crushed, period. There is no way in any game that a good Axis and good Allied player for where the Japanese overrun the map. Simply impossible due to their lack of resources. Thus the time constraint needs to be on the Allies. It is much easier for the Axis to take strategic locations for their victory points. Going beyond that becomes more difficult. But the Allies need the time pressure since the game is based on victory points not simple holding X, Y, Z objective. The port efficiency system rewards taking more ports. That pushes the supply system forward simulating how it was in teh war. To push the top route you can take the Marshals and 111,58 which isn't hard. Build it up. Next 87,58 which is another up-gradable port. While you don't need a 2 prong approach it does force the Axis to split their resources. As the Allies you should be building ships early and often timing them to come out in 1944/45

This step is my personal nightmare by the way. If Enewetak (111, 58) is fortified by a Japanese army, with Japanese navy in backup in Truk, good luck to take it.

[ncc1701e]

So, in order of priority, is it more changing ship repair or effectiveness lost at sea?

Well to be honest I was putting the repair time in the efficiency settings.
As I said in other posts I feel that efficiency is a lot of things including minor damage and things like that.

SO if you change efficiency to be less which again I am total fine with...I would think you should increase repairs and even upgrades to be much longer and require specific ports for this.

Just would make more sense.

But, we are back to #1. Fleets are constantly in port.

[stjeand]

We are?
Only if your ships are always damaged.

[ncc1701e]

Sorry I did not catch then, did you propose of a reduction of the amount of effectiveness lost at sea? If so, my mistake.

[stjeand]

Yes...I was thinking half of what it is now...

SO say 8 points.

I think more like....

Every turn you are out of port you lose 4 efficiency.
Each "movement" point used you lose 2 more.
Attacks still use 8.
Defending still uses 8.

Subs lose 8 for every convoy attack turn. They should NOT be able to sail forever with supply ships.

Not sure if damage makes you lose more.


BUT if you do this you should make repair / upgrade changes also.

[AlvaroSousa]

Fleets closer to friendly ports do lose less. Thus why it is important to take ports as you go. Just taking 1 port in the Marshalls then moving on isn't very helpful. You should take all of them.

It is not that hard for the Allies.

Perhaps players aren't building enough support ships. I build DDs, CAs, and more CVs as the US.

That was often a mistake when novice players played World in Flames then found out they don't have enough umph late in the war.

[stjeand]

Looks like close to ports ships lose 16% per turn. Range line appears to be 18 hexes from closest port.
Away from ports 24%.

Size does not appear to matter.

IF there was a way to do that it would be better though not sure that is possible.

[AlvaroSousa]

As for port repair in WP2 I have not decided yet what to do. Lots of valid points. I might just specify X port repairs Y ship types... I would keep it very simple though. As pointed out it is a minor issue and I don't want WP2 turning into Hoi4 in complexity.

[stjeand]

As for port repair in WP2 I have not decided yet what to do. Lots of valid points. I might just specify X port repairs Y ship types... I would keep it very simple though. As pointed out it is a minor issue and I don't want WP2 turning into Hoi4 in complexity.

Simple is good but it can be a little complex...I have no issue with that.
I don't mean I have to spend 10 minutes doing math but straightforward things like...Shipyards are places and can repair or build ships, and only so much per turn.
Think of shipyard points as PP points...you only have so many so can only build X ships / repair Y ships.
Only make sense. There are only so many drydocks...can't repair 10 BB at one time.

[Professor Chaos]

Maybe for WP2 there could be a deployable improvement or unit, something like "Port Facilities", that would represent Mulberrys in Normandy or Ulithi in the Pacific.

[ncc1701e]

Maybe for WP2 there could be a deployable improvement or unit, something like "Port Facilities", that would represent Mulberrys in Normandy or Ulithi in the Pacific.

Good idea in the support items. And sub pens for protecting subs from air raids on the Atlantic wall.