1.40 OOB Issues

[witpqs]

MSW Jan van Amstel
MSW Pieter de Bitter
MSW Abraham Crijinssen

All have port of arrival 'unknown' (in mid '43).

Also, USN ML Ogalala: in any reference I have ever seen or read her name was spelled 'Oglala'. You probably have better references than I have to double check.

[pry]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

MSW Jan van Amstel
MSW Pieter de Bitter
MSW Abraham Crijinssen

All have port of arrival 'unknown' (in mid '43).

Which scenario?

[witpqs]

Sorry - scenario 15.

[michaelm75au]

As you are in mid43, are these ship replacements for MSW which were sunk earlier (see rule15.1.1)? If so, the port of arrival (Soerabaja) is probably under Japanese control in which case they can't arrive until it is back under Allied control (see rule 15.5)
Michael

[michaelm75au]

The code has been changed (tac > 243) to allow Allied carrier capable in slots 244 to 249.

Michael

[Admiral DadMan]

Scenarios with 12/7/41 start:

3146 West Virginia should be class 181 Colorado


Class Name Corrections:

1217-1218 should be Tennessee, not California
1219-1221 should be Colorado, not Maryland

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: bgibs

CVEBlock Island STILL has no air groups. Dis it historicaly not have an air group?

USS Block Island (CVE-106) was one of four Commencement Bay class escort carriers that were equipped with Marine Squadrons for direct support during amphibious assaults. Block Island was the only one that carrier night fighters.

Each ship carried a composite Marine Air Group that consisted of:
A Group Headquarters, called a Marine Carrier Air Group (MCVG)
A Fighter Squadron
A Torpedo Bomber Squadron
A Carrier Aircraft Service Detachment (CASD) that was directly attached to (and numbered with) the MCVG.
Note that some or all of the fighter squadrons were equipped with FM-2 prior to deployment but it APPEARS that all were
equipped with Corsairs (F4U-1 or FG-1) before deployment. In addition, each VMF(CVS) was assigned two F6F-5P photo-recon fighters, but these are not represented in WITP.


These Ships and their airgroups were:

Block Island: MCVG-1
VMF(CVS)-511 with 10 F4U-1 and 8 F6F-3N
VMTB(CVS)-233 with 12 TBM

Gilbert Islands: MCVG-2
VMF(CVS)-512 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-143 with 12 TBM

Vella Gulf: MCVG-3
VMF(CVS)-513 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-234 with 12 TBM

Cape Gloucester: MCVG-4
VMF(CVS)-351 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-132 with 12 TBM


Four more groups were being prepared for the invasion of Japan but were not yet ready when the war ended. The first two had joined their CVEs and working up, the last two were still ashore

Salerno Bay: MCVG-5 with VMF(CVS)-514 and VMTB(CVS)-144

Puget Sound: MCVG-6 with VMF(CVS)-321 and VMTB(CVS)-454

Rendova: MCVG-7 with VMF(CVS)-216 and VMTB(CVS)-624

Point Cruz: MCVG-8 with VMF(CVS)-217 and VMTB(CVS)-464

I see what he's talking about; Block Island (slot 3109) is without an airgroup.

[Ron Saueracker]

Here is a wrench in the machinery. I've played this game about a dozen times into late 42 and countless times to mid 42. I've yet to notice a British CV withdrawl requirement, more importantly, a fleet carrier! Has this even been coded into the game? I don't think so.

Major problem then folks. While checking into this, I clarified a few things. The Illustrious, Formidable and Indomitable arrive between Jan - Apr 42 gametime. They are then available to the Allies for the rest of the game. Well, historically, Formidable and Indomitable were available by April 42, no problem here, but I'm sure Illustrious was undergoing repairs/refitting in Norfolk, Virginia until December 42!! She is not scheduled to arrive in the Indian Ocean until approx Feb, 1944. Further, both Indomitable and Formidable were withdrawn for "Ironside" (the Madagascar operation) in the spring of 42 and did not arrive back until 2nd quarter of 44 (Formidable)and 4th quarter of 44 for Indomitable!

Made a date Booboo with Illustrious. Crossed over two ship histories and typo'd a year. Illustrious WAS in Indian Ocean region during the period the game states. My bad.

This is a huge issue, especially for the already pressured Japanese player. These CVs should be part of the withdrawl requirement, especially since they were earmarked for the Med and the Malta convoys of mid 42.

I propose that CVs should have a PP cost of 2500, CVLs 2000, CVEs 1500. The probability of withdrawl (CVs worth 2500 PPs) should be high starting in May/42 until July/42.

What if Japan advances on India? The ability to pay PP instead of withdrawl is there but it carries a heavy cost for India if they go and heavy cost for Allied cause if they stay(Malta falls most likely). CV withdrawls are vital to the game.

This brings up another issue which I've been advocating. This CV oversight was made despite the Capiutal nature of their type. If this was overlooked, how many other ships and type of ships are available to combat lowly Japan when historically where not available for large portions of the game? Withdrawls should include smaller warships as the RN is short of DD types. Merchants should be included as well given their nomadic service.

Finally, the USN needs a withdrawl requirement. Too many USN ships are available to combat Japan. Panama needed defences, yet the very ships which defended the canal are being used by the Allied player in the Solomons, DEI, North Pacific etc...for the entire duration of the war!! Omahas, Clemsons, and smaller escorts like SCs would be required to withdraw randomly between Jan 42 and Jan 44.

It's not just the Omaha class CLs, Clemson class DDs and smaller escorts which need be included due to their involvement off map near Panama. Ships which used American ports when damaged in the Pacific did not necessarily go to WestCoast yards. Many went to the EastCoast yards and operated for a time in pother theatres before arriving back in the Pacific (eg. Nevada, Marblehead, Boise). There should be some small chance that a heavily damaged ship entering a WestCoast port triggers a withdrawl requirement for that specific ship).

Finally,the USN built so many ships that crews needed training so older types were withdrawn from combat. Older subs were therefore withdrawn for training, starting in mid 42 for Dolphin and Cachalot class, early 43 for S Boats, late 43 for Porpoise/Permit class, late 44 for Salmon/Sargo class, and early 45 for Tambor/Gar class. Since training needs need not be modelled, the classes that were used should be made withdrawl canditates.

[Herrbear]

A number of ships show the correct number of depth charge racks and throwers but show the turrets as 2. Shouldn't the turrets be 1?

[pry]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

MSW Jan van Amstel
MSW Pieter de Bitter
MSW Abraham Crijinssen

All have port of arrival 'unknown' (in mid '43).

Also, USN ML Ogalala: in any reference I have ever seen or read her name was spelled 'Oglala'. You probably have better references than I have to double check.

Respawned ships must have their countries home port in this case Soerabaja in their possession or they will not arrive and will be listed as Unknown unitl the base is back in Allied hands.

I'll fix Oglala's name...

[pry]

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Scenarios with 12/7/41 start:

3146 West Virginia should be class 181 Colorado


Class Name Corrections:

1217-1218 should be Tennessee, not California
1219-1221 should be Colorado, not Maryland

Will correct the upgrade classe names, however the WeeVee will stay the same...

This is the FIX for the radar never repairing issue and will stay... WeeVee was the only one with radar 12/7/41 the game can not deal with one class with two different configurations....

[pry]

Ron,

this is a hard coded featue and not an data base issue and does not belong here.

The withdrawl is a random roll each month to determine what gets withdrawn and carriers can and are subject to this withdrawl, it's a simple roll of the dice. There is no Historical order to the withdrawl it is totally random.

[MadmanRick]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Here is a wrench in the machinery. I've played this game about a dozen times into late 42 and countless times to mid 42. I've yet to notice a British CV withdrawl requirement, more importantly, a fleet carrier! Has this even been coded into the game? I don't think so.

Major problem then folks. While checking into this, I clarified a few things. The Illustrious, Formidable and Indomitable arrive between Jan - Apr 42 gametime. They are then available to the Allies for the rest of the game. Well, historically, Formidable and Indomitable were available by April 42, no problem here, but I'm sure Illustrious was undergoing repairs/refitting in Norfolk, Virginia until December 42!! She is not scheduled to arrive in the Indian Ocean until approx Feb, 1944. Further, both Indomitable and Formidable were withdrawn for "Ironside" (the Madagascar operation) in the spring of 42 and did not arrive back until 2nd quarter of 44 (Formidable)and 4th quarter of 44 for Indomitable!

This is a huge issue, especially for the already pressured Japanese player. These CVs should be part of the withdrawl requirement, especially since they were earmarked for the Med and the Malta convoys of mid 42.

I propose that CVs should have a PP cost of 2500, CVLs 2000, CVEs 1500. The probability of withdrawl (CVs worth 2500 PPs) should be high starting in May/42 until July/42.

What if Japan advances on India? The ability to pay PP instead of withdrawl is there but it carries a heavy cost for India if they go and heavy cost for Allied cause if they stay(Malta falls most likely). CV withdrawls are vital to the game.

This brings up another issue which I've been advocating. This CV oversight was made despite the Capiutal nature of their type. If this was overlooked, how many other ships and type of ships are available to combat lowly Japan when historically where not available for large portions of the game? Withdrawls should include smaller warships as the RN is short of DD types. Merchants should be included as well given their nomadic service.

Finally, the USN needs a withdrawl requirement. Too many USN ships are available to combat Japan. Panama needed defences, yet the very ships which defended the canal are being used by the Allied player in the Solomons, DEI, North Pacific etc...for the entire duration of the war!! Omahas, Clemsons, and smaller escorts like SCs would be required to withdraw randomly between Jan 42 and Jan 44.

It's not just the Omaha class CLs, Clemson class DDs and smaller escorts which need be included due to their involvement off map near Panama. Ships which used American ports when damaged in the Pacific did not necessarily go to WestCoast yards. Many went to the EastCoast yards and operated for a time in pother theatres before arriving back in the Pacific (eg. Nevada, Marblehead, Boise). There should be some small chance that a heavily damaged ship entering a WestCoast port triggers a withdrawl requirement for that specific ship).

Finally,the USN built so many ships that crews needed training so older types were withdrawn from combat. Older subs were therefore withdrawn for training, starting in mid 42 for Dolphin and Cachalot class, early 43 for S Boats, late 43 for Porpoise/Permit class, late 44 for Salmon/Sargo class, and early 45 for Tambor/Gar class. Since training needs need not be modelled, the classes that were used should be made withdrawl canditates.

Ron,
I agree with your comments. I particularly like the USN withdrawal requirement, as it would reflect real world concerns into the game, that are not present now.

Rick

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: pry

Ron,

this is a hard coded featue and not an data base issue and does not belong here.

The withdrawl is a random roll each month to determine what gets withdrawn and carriers can and are subject to this withdrawl, it's a simple roll of the dice. There is no Historical order to the withdrawl it is totally random.

Understood but the Illustrious entry date is way off. Makes itan OOB issue as well. This post needed a home.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: pry

Respawned ships must have their countries home port in this case Soerabaja in their possession or they will not arrive and will be listed as Unknown unitl the base is back in Allied hands.

Thanks - I didn't know that.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I've yet to notice a British CV withdrawl requirement, more importantly, a fleet carrier! Has this even been coded into the game? I don't think so.

Ron,

I have had British CV withdrawal (fleet carrier, mid '43), so it is coded in. Seems to be the least likely, because I've had more of everything else. I don't remember for sure but I think I had CVL withdrawal in my previous game.

[Feinder]

1. 101st RN Base Force at Singapore has 100 prep-points for Hong Kong. Seems wrong.

2. Take a look at the current & TOE settings for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Aus Inf Divs. The current allotments, do not match the TOE settings even remotely (as in, often greatly exceed the TOE). I did -not- notice anything peculiar with the Cav Divs.

-F-

** Oh, scen #15.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I've yet to notice a British CV withdrawl requirement, more importantly, a fleet carrier! Has this even been coded into the game? I don't think so.

Ron,

I have had British CV withdrawal (fleet carrier, mid '43), so it is coded in. Seems to be the least likely, because I've had more of everything else. I don't remember for sure but I think I had CVL withdrawal in my previous game.

CV withdrawl needs to be very high probability middle half of 42. But, not exactly a database issue as Paul said. Let's take it somewhere else if need be.

[Hipper]

RE HMS Illustrious

No she was in the indian ocean in may 42

HMS Illustrious was heavily damaged by a concerted enemy air attack by German dive-bombers on 10 January 1941, when the armoured flight deck armour was penetrated by an 1100lb (500kg) bomb. That and six other bomb hits kept her out of action until the following December. She had temporary repaired at Malta 10-23 January 1941, and further repairs at Alexandria between February -March 1941. Major repairs were undertaken at Norfolk, Va.(USA) between May-December 1941.

By May 1942, HMS Illustrious was on operations against Vichy French forces in Diego Suarez Madagascar, and remained in the Indian Ocean from May 1942 until January 1943, where she undertook further operations against Madagascar in September 1942. She undertook a refit in the UK between February -June 1943 then returned to the Mediterranean between August-November 1943 where she took part in the Salerno landings in September 1943.

[Hipper]

Hurricane range problem

Hi folks There is a problem with Hurricane range in the game the hurricane is given a range of one more or less representing the hurricanes range of 140 miles on internal fuel

However by late 1942 Drop tanks were in use which extended the hurricanes range to about 3 1/2 hours flying time, this had a major effect on the air war in Burma ( hurricanes could now raid Akyb island from Cox's Bazar )

since we have only one huricane modeled in the game the IIC, with four cannons it would seem to be reasonable to give it the capacity it had for most of the war.

The other possibility is to add another hurricane model (the IIB) with 12 browning mmg (usually 8) and a shorter range, to be replaced by the IIC with longer range and (drop tanks)

hope this is the correct place to put these thoughts

cheers