Review of HoI2 over at wargamers

[Koper]

ORIGINAL: CatLord

ORIGINAL: Koper

He, he... Ravinhood, let the bashing commence! [:D]

Play the game first please... [;)]

Cat

I was just looking for good, old "It's only RTS crap!" kind of talk. [;)]

[Hanal]

Well I must admit that despite having been burned with HOI, I am regaining some interest in the game ...I like the idea of doing away with all of those attack coordination issues, thus streamlining the combat, and also reducing the tech tree minutia....I will consider seriously purchasing it about 2 months after it is released to give it time to iron out any problems....

[Veldor]

[Koper]

I thought we are wargamers here - who doesn't care for gfx, but what is beneath it? [;)]

Believe me, it's new game. Paradox simply gave up an idea of making same game with better, flashy gfx, focusing on the real things instead.

You can consider it "uber-patch", all right. I can say the same about WiTP (compared to PacWar). This is new game in terms so many aspects that it's actually hard to list. New diplomatic system. Serious adjustments to land combat/logistics. New system of missions for air combat. Completly new naval system. Completly new research system. Totally revamped trade system. Huge research effort put in detailed historical info, OOBs and so on...

Saying all that, it's still HoI in mayor concept - it's still continous time game and there is still no hexes around. Those two things can surely stop many players from having comfortable game experience with it. Plus of course, it's all about ahistorical situations - players ability to act on so many levels have to lead to much more ahistorical situations that in other games. Some people like it, some don't. [:D]

[Warfare1]

Well, all of that sounds great.

I played HoI one and the continuous time and non-hexes did not bother me.

However,

What did bother me was the ability to control Brazil and then take on the entire world - LOL - this is after all suppose to be a WWII grand strategy game.

Plus, when the USA tried to invade Europe, it did so in penny packs and got slapped good for making the attempts (which it did time after time against the same beachheads).

The USA rarely invaded Japan.

Japan over-ran almost all of Asia because Britain did not reinforce India, etc...

Britain was useless in defending North Africa...

Italy was a powerhouse - LOL

and the USSR was conquered by Germany within two years...

In addition, the AI NEVER protected its most valuable cities (capitals and other strategic centres)... or if it did so, it was a miraculous fluke...

Naval warfare was a joke, and carriers were useless...

I could go on and on...

Have these all been fixed in HoI2?

[freeboy]

Well, hoi was an uber lemon, and hoi2 will have to get the best reveiws ever to get my interest.. I really cannot stand cheesy lame ai in these type games... one reason that Decisive battles series went up two notches for me was pbem... and I am not sure how that would work in a game like hoi2...
I guess I am just fat and happy in wipt-a land, and the only title to get attention for solo play is rtw...

personal note.. am interested in the next Silent Hunter3, but it faces the same daunting tasks of de-turkey-fying itself from its predissesor..... SS2 was soooooo lame!

[fahdiz]

ORIGINAL: Warfare1

Have these all been fixed in HoI2?

Most of them have been fixed in HoI 1, as a matter of fact. But don't let that stop you.

[ravinhood]

Quote from the review: "It is quite simply the greatest strategic game of World War II ever produced"

Now, just how many times have I read that "statement" before. And Arron McKenna is one of the bigest Paradox fanbois I know.

Whey you write an "unbiased" review, one certainly doesn't put a phrase into it like the one above "quite simply" the greatest", that is very biased and not the truth. Because for it to be the "truth", everyone would have to agree with him. Not what I would call professional journalism. The review reeks of "juvenile delight", which goes along with his young adult age I'm sure.

There's just no need to rush to buy on a "repeat" of the same game, same era, basically same design, it's more an enhancement to Hoi 1.06 than it is a fresh and new game. It also shouldn't be very buggy because it's the same game. The bugs this time around will be in the new UI and of course the AI as always. I don't expect the bugs of any previous Paradox games because this one isn't a "fresh new one", it's a repeat and until Paradox makes a complete new engine, and a complete new game and then releases it without being riddled with bugs, flaws, ctd's and an AI that is to laugh at, then I will change my tune.

This is what I would call "sugar coating" the Paradox community and trying to bring back the masses that have fled from the Paradox games because of their game release policies. It's the ole "cat-fish charlie" on the LURE to bring them in, then burn them again at a later date for another $40 pop.

[ASHBERY76]

There's just no need to rush to buy on a "repeat" of the same game, same era, basically same design, it's more an enhancement to Hoi 1.06

The people who actually own the game(like me) will laugh out load at such rubbish.

[ravinhood]

The people who actually own the game(like me) will laugh out load at such rubbish.

Laugh all you want, I never said I wouldn't buy the game, I will just wait until it's under $15 on ebay within "oh I'll give it 2 months" on this one.

My policy is not to support Paradox, never said I wouldn't "play" their games.

[shredder]

I'm cautiously optimistic with HOI II. If the wargamer review isn't accurate in it's glowing recommendation, then they will suffer in credibility. I would think that with a release this big they will have to be objective or suffer the consequences. As an aside, I find it an interesting contrast between Paradox and Matrix. The former sells their wargame for $40, comes in a DVD case, and includes a printed manual. Matrix, on the other hand, charges $60, CD comes in a paper sleeve, and no printed manual. I've always gritted my teeth when purchasing a Matrix game because of the cost and no manual, but when another company can come out with a game such as HOI II for much less the cost AND a manual, well.... it makes me look at Matrix with a less than favorable impression and even though I enjoy playing their games, I doubt I'll be making any purchases in the future. Probably my loss, but I'm voting with my pocketbook.

[Veldor]

[SlapBone]

ORIGINAL: Veldor

I will buy SC2 upon release.

Ditto on that one.

[Veldor]

[Zeta16]

Whats the big deal about a manual, I rather have it on the computer so at least they can fix it if need be. The first HOI manual was a really big pile of shit.

[Error in 0]

ORIGINAL: shredder

I'm cautiously optimistic with HOI II. If the wargamer review isn't accurate in it's glowing recommendation, then they will suffer in credibility. I would think that with a release this big they will have to be objective or suffer the consequences. As an aside, I find it an interesting contrast between Paradox and Matrix. The former sells their wargame for $40, comes in a DVD case, and includes a printed manual. Matrix, on the other hand, charges $60, CD comes in a paper sleeve, and no printed manual. I've always gritted my teeth when purchasing a Matrix game because of the cost and no manual, but when another company can come out with a game such as HOI II for much less the cost AND a manual, well.... it makes me look at Matrix with a less than favorable impression and even though I enjoy playing their games, I doubt I'll be making any purchases in the future. Probably my loss, but I'm voting with my pocketbook.

Hi shredder
I can see your point, and I will probably never spend 60$ on any game. But Matrix has some very good titles belove that price. Titles that does not require a patch each month in a faint hope of making it playable.. One all time favourite is the "Highway to the reich", and is something you definitely should try!

I have played HoI ever since it was released, and it certainly has an ambivalent feeling towards it. My greatest concern was that I did not find it to be such a STRATEGIC game, as it was always a constant nitpick to control airfleets, sea fleets and armies, just so they did not evaporate because they were strolling in a "low infrastructure province", meeting an AI controleld uber-stacked fleet and similar nonsens. And their patch-policy (introduce atleast 1 'bug' to fix another 'bug') has made me lost alot of faith in HoI2. The fact that HoI2 has worse graphics (the provinse text) than in HoI1 and still apparantly the same need for nitpicks is a downer. The demo only convinced me to not buy this title, atleast not until its in the bargain bin.

What I need in a Grand strategy game is: a C&C system as in Highway to the reich; Arial forces truly strategic in the sense of abstracted, as in Korsun pocket, fleet action a little more interesting and long lasting than in HoI, and no moron rules just so that the AI can get the upper hand; complex support system which may make a game in the game and finally, if possible in the short time frame, a 'Civilization' feeling of building up your country. I am apparently asking too much..


JT

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: shredder

...Matrix, on the other hand, charges $60...

Take a look at Gates of Troy. Only $20 with an excellent PDF manual as part of the digital download. Looks like a very good game from my limited play so far. It could be the best bargain at Matrix, or anywhere, right now.

As a disappointed HOI owner I'm certainly sitting on my wallet right now wrt HOI2.

[fahdiz]

I'd be the first to agree, except that normally with a new graphics system comes a better user interface as well. (WiTP vs. PacWar as one example). And both would add value to the game and are normally part of any "remake".

The user interface in HoI2 is vastly improved from its predecessor. It is much more well laid-out, and air and naval combat have received a complete overhaul.

Although it shares a similar visual style with HoI, it is definitely a new game. And it is much better for it.

(Disclaimer - I beta-tested HoI2.)

[Hertston]

I'll wait for the UK store release in six weeks or so, at least.

That should let opinions pan out (IMHO the value, or lack of it, of this sort of game only becomes apparent after weeks, not hours), and maybe the first patch to arrive. Opinion was very favourable on HoI 1 too (including mine) - but the longer you played, the more it sucked, as its flaws became ever more obvious

[Koper]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

The people who actually own the game(like me) will laugh out load at such rubbish.

Laugh all you want, I never said I wouldn't buy the game, I will just wait until it's under $15 on ebay within "oh I'll give it 2 months" on this one.

My policy is not to support Paradox, never said I wouldn't "play" their games.

Ravinhood, no one expects from you buying this game - nor even considering it.

What we expect are reasonable arguments. Saying that it's the same game just because you have seen one screenshot and it looks similar it's like saying that all games that use hexes are in fact the same, so why bother? [:D]

PS. Waiting a while might be good idea for more demanding players, anyway. After all, patches rarely make game worse then it was at the start. As I see things right now, HoI2 simply starts from much higher level then HoI1 ever reached. Of course you can say that is because HoI2 is a patch - whatever. Following this thinking, Windows 95 was a patch of Windows 3.11, Doom was a patch for Wolfenstein and Spartan is a patch for Legion...