AI for MWiF - Commonwealth

[brian brian]

I really like the new "Global Economy" option that replaces Food in Flames (In the 2008 Annual). But I would have to throw out my CW conv set-up entirely. I think the CW could get all three bonus Production Points at start if they set up right, but I haven't looked into it too closely yet.

I also think that option might suggest some new thinking for Italian strategy as well.

[sajbalk]

I should think that the CW would qualify for 4 extra. From E. European map, they could get Cyprus or S. Africa. American map is covered. India and Australia add the balance.

Have not tried this option yet.

[paulderynck]

Great new Avatar, Steve.

[brian brian]

well Mr. Balk the wrinkle you might not expect on that thought is that the South African resources are actually on the Asian map, since you use the locations on the 5 'Classic' maps (perhaps a bit tricky to explain to MWiF players, but I presume that won't be a worry for the first version as these new optionals won't be included). The CW could get the 4th map via Cyprus and Greece however, which is quite possible at points in a WiF game.

I like the new option. The Axis get some goodies on the front end with a production point for Japan and Germany from turn one. But if the CW were to get all four bonus PPs, that would be 24 BP / year from 1943 on, definitely something to think about. The US and Russia would get some eventually too. As the USA in a no-Gibraltar game I'd play for Senegal to go Vichy and then grab Portugal too.

[brian brian]

I start building the CW FTR3s in J/F 40. The Beaufighters aren't the best, but you have to empty the pool to get to the Mosquitoes, etc. It's all about the box # ... which means it's all about the FTR3s. Once the carrier planes get splashed, they end up in a big pool of counters hard for the CW to put to use.

[composer99]

CW normally gets 22 production points without any 'Global Economy' (or for MWiF Food in Flames) bonuses. If it could get up to 4, that would give it 26 production points or 39 bp in 1943+! (Enough to actually afford an o-chit per turn and still build stuff in quantity in the late game, even if it can't compete with the 'big boys' of the Allied side).

[Edfactor]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Another thing to consider about strat bombing Germany : It is often interesting to strat bomb a german target, just to engage the German fighter protecting it, without really caring for the target itself. Destroying a German fighter is worth the mission, this is more BP damage than you can achieve on the factory itself.

well the bombers cost more, the bombers are going to loose their pilots more often because of being over enemy territory, and the bombers are going to be on a bad air to air combat table. So this only really works if you can get a fighter thats superior to the defending aircraft.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Another thing to consider about strat bombing Germany : It is often interesting to strat bomb a german target, just to engage the German fighter protecting it, without really caring for the target itself. Destroying a German fighter is worth the mission, this is more BP damage than you can achieve on the factory itself.

well the bombers cost more, the bombers are going to loose their pilots more often because of being over enemy territory, and the bombers are going to be on a bad air to air combat table. So this only really works if you can get a fighter thats superior to the defending aircraft.

Sure, I was not talking about fighting German Fighters with the bombers alone.
But what I wanted to say is that you should strat bomb, even if you're not that "superior" to the enemy. I would up to -1.

[Edfactor]

Another good reason to keep up heavy air builds, especially early in the game. I have always been in favor of a large british airforce, its useful over germany, conducting an invasion or contesting the mediteranean.

[Taxman66]

Yeah, but you have to be careful and watch what Jerry is doing.  If he's building stuff that could be used in an invasion or investing heavily in subs you're going to want to adjust your builds.  All those pretty planes won't help if they're not enough ground units to stop Sea Lion, or enough replacement CPs or ASW to handle a big wolfpack.

[composer99]

Don't forget that lots of airpower can reduce cp losses.
 
The biggest problem the CW has is that it has a lot of defensive commitments worldwide early on, may have a major defensive commitment (the UK if Sealion is coming) during the early-mid game, has to keep the convoy lines open all game, and of the European Allies is usually the first to switch from defence to offence, strategically speaking (unless Sealion is coming) - which requires a different set of on-map forces than defence does.
 
It's probably the hardest Ally to play.

[sajbalk]

The CW is the toughest ally to play by far. China just sits there and maybe attacks late. France just sits there and dies. The US builds everything and does as it pleases. Russia is simple, as it takes mostly lands, but Russia can often live on the knife's edge.

A new player, introduced into a bunch of veterans, would likley be placed with France (to learn the ropes) and the US (so as to see the fun side of WiFFE)

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

The CW is the toughest ally to play by far. China just sits there and maybe attacks late. France just sits there and dies. The US builds everything and does as it pleases. Russia is simple, as it takes mostly lands, but Russia can often live on the knife's edge.

A new player, introduced into a bunch of veterans, would likley be placed with France (to learn the ropes) and the US (so as to see the fun side of WiFFE)

I found that the veterans say to the new player - "Maybe you should play Russia. It is easy and you do not have to learn the naval rules. It starts slow as well"

Then the most experienced player, famous for saying to the Japanese "I leave you Vladivostock if you hurry up" in Jan/Feb 42 turn when he captures the last Russian city on the european map gets to play Germany.

-Orm

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

The CW is the toughest ally to play by far. China just sits there and maybe attacks late. France just sits there and dies. The US builds everything and does as it pleases. Russia is simple, as it takes mostly lands, but Russia can often live on the knife's edge.

A new player, introduced into a bunch of veterans, would likley be placed with France (to learn the ropes) and the US (so as to see the fun side of WiFFE)

CW is the major power I prefer the most and the major power I play the worst.

[Orm]

This is my standard setup of CW convoy points. (No Food in Flames and no tankers)

For Production:
6 Can res/oil -> Atlantic -> UK = 18 cp
2 Ven oil -> Carribien + USA -> Canada = 2 cp
1 Cyp res -> Med -> UK = 4 cp
3 African res -> Atlantic -> UK = 12 cp
4 Indian res -> Incian ocean + Atlantic -> UK = 32 cp
2 Malaysian res -> Bay of Bengal -> India = 2 cp
1 Br. Gyana res -> Atlantic -> UK = 4 cp
1 Aus res -> Australia = 0 cp
2 UK res -> UK = 0cp

Oil transported to save
1 Ven oil -> Carribien + USA -> Canada = 1 cp
1 Persian oil -> Rail -> Egypt = 0 cp
2 NEI oil -> S. China Sea -> Singapore/Malaya = 2 cp

Oil for reorganisation or save in the area
1 Port of Spain - Not transported
1 Burma -> Rail -> Burma

Resources not used.
2 Australia

Equalls 22 res/oil for production. Since only 21 is needed to produce full for CW (1339) there is one extra in case the Cyprus res is stopped. Otherwise save an oil in UK. 4 traded oil transported to be saved and 2 oil for reorganisation or to be saved. This uses up 77 cp and leaves 4 in reserve.

My main reason for the 2 cp in the medíterranian is that you draw supply to Malta from 2 directions.

-Orm

[peskpesk]

What about Convoys In Flames? What's the standard setup for CW convoy points with tankers? Any difference?

[composer99]

Not really, you just sub in tankers for convoys as required.

[composer99]

Here's a thought for a summer '41 campaign for the CW (assuming Germany is attacking USSR). The AIO can add it to its bag of tricks.
 
Step 1: Denmark.
 
Typically, Germany leaves 1 corps in Frederikshavn and (maybe) 1 corps in Copenhagen, and that is the German defence.
What the CW does is invade along the southern coast such that it ZoCs the rail line; and up north on the island with Frederikshavn to get a beachhead there.
 
Then blitz units come in and knock the Frederikshavn defence into the sea while the CW builds up to assault Copenhagen (possibly including invasions from the Baltic by ships passing through Frederikshavn). After that comes the Copenhagen assault, opening up the Baltic to the Royal Navy.
 
The key here is, by cutting the rail line, if the Germans want to assist they have to do a combined (which Russia will be very grateful for) to bring out the sealift (if they have any available to sail into the Baltic to pick up troops).
 
At the end of the turn, the sealift that brought troops ashore RTBs to Frederikshavn and/or Copenhagen (if they have the movement).
 
Step 2: Finland
 
CW forces sail out into the Baltic and land in Finland. Over the turn they build up land and air assets and conquer Helsinki. During the end-of-turn step, Finland is completely conquered.
 
Now that the RN is in the Baltic in force, Germany will have a very hard time sending anything other than air units to defend Finland unless Leningrad has fallen (which has usually not taken place in summer of 1941).
 
Reasoning
(1) There has been a suggestion that the CW should commit land forces to Karelia to help the USSR by defending Murmansk against the Finns. I've never been a big fan of that option. This option accomplishes the same goal by removing the Finns from the game.
 
(2) This reduces German production by having the RN active in the Baltic, sinking German convoys. Denmark is also a handy airbase for strategic bombers.
 
(3) A blocker force with an anti-tank gun on the Danish-German border will require serious German effort (at least 1.5 armour) to crack (if they want to blitz), and the straits can ensure the islands containing Frederikshavn & Copenhagen will hold.
 
(4) If the Axis diverts long-range fighters & naval bombers to fight the RN, it means less Axis land-based air in the Med. Likewise, if they divert airpower from fighting the USSR to defend Finland, it is a respite for the USSR.
 
(5) Lend-lease to the USSR can now be as follows:
Murmansk (city + port) = 2 bp plus 1 res & 1 bp per railed factory (up to 2).
Leningrad (city, 2 factories, port) = 4 bp and 2 res.
 
With this scenario, I would not bother lending to Archangel.
 
So the theoretical limit is 8 bp and 4 res, which in 1942 is a hefty 13 bp on turns the Germans attack in the USSR's home country.
 
If Murmansk did not get any factories you're still looking at 6 bp, 2 res, which would be 9 bp (still respectable in 1942).
 

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Here's a thought for a summer '41 campaign for the CW (assuming Germany is attacking USSR). The AIO can add it to its bag of tricks.

Yes, if it want to loose. [:D]

The real thing is knocking out Italy, not playing in the Baltic which leads nowhere. The German activity that you will draw to the Baltic, you would have drawn to by attacking in the Med. Knockingo ut Italy is not only fighting around Saridnia, Sicily and the Italian Coast, it is also fighting for Tripoli and the Italian East Africa.

When I play Germany or Italy, there is nothing that I welcome more than a CW that invade Denmark in the summer of 1941. Easy to stop, easy to knock out, and leads nowhere for them. The complete contrary of a Med CW come back, where it is difficult to stop nearly impossible to knock away, and leads right in your heart. [:D]

This said, the AIO needs to know this trick that composer exposed, because :
(1) It needs to know how to loose (OK, it's a joke [:D]).
(2) There may be global circumstances inthe game that makes this move non costly for the CW and useful for them, but this is far from the norm IMO.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Patrice,

Being predictable is a very bad thing for the AIO, so the more options, the better. And there must be some point where as the CW you would invade Denmark. Say the Axis had no units in Denmark and just two units in Germany: Berlin and Hamburg, perhaps a couple of fighters too. If things are juicy enough, do you still ignore Denmark?

If the AIO always went into the Med and never touched the Baltic, then the human players will quickly learn to strip everything out of the Batlic, since the AIO will never attack there. As I said, being predictable is really bad for the AIO.